Planning permission question!

[TinaTotal]

We are buying a house that needs total renovation.

It has been used, up til now, as 3 flats although I believe it was a house at some point. It needs knocking back into one family home. It needs everything doing to it and of course the internal layout needs changing. We'd like to create a loft room too. We won't be changing the external except for maybe a dormer.

Our builder and our architect say we probably won't need planning permission.

We're on a really tight timescale and budget and if we don't need planning brilliant. But I'm really worried about the council saying we have to knock it down if it transpires we did need planning.

What do you all think??

Just ask the planning department at this point?

You can pay most local planning authorities a consultation fee and they'll advise you what would most likely be given permission, or if your plans do need permission.

I'd imagine this would as it's a change to the number of dwellings. Some councils may object as it changes the availability of certain housing stock in the area. Would you still purchase if you need planning permission? What if you can't get it approved, would you still buy?

But they always say yes if you ask them!

Call the planning office and ask. There is no way you could get a meaningful answer from a public forum.... Unless you gave your address out, full details of the works and some kind hearted planning be consultant picked it up for free and risked being sued if you acted on information given that turned out to be incorrect.

Might depend where you live but I would think you would need permission. You need it to convert a house into a HMO so would imagine it would go the other way as well. Best to get the council's advice even if you have to pay for it, just to be safe

It depends where you are - in my London borough you need permission

www.planninggeek.co.uk/projects/combine-two-houses/

I think the starting point is was it ever a house or was it built as flats. Because I think that would massively change the answer. And you don't seem sure...

Are you prepared for the utility company costs?

The dormer will require planning because flats don't have permitted development rights.

You definitely need to check with the council as there are circumstances that would require PP for a change of use - from HMO to residential for example.

Friends did something similar, although the biggest problem they faced was the Catch 22 that it couldn't be mortgaged on a standard mortgage as long as it remained separate flats, and they couldn't make the necessary changes (removing the extra kitchens and some internal partitions) until after completion.

I live in a London borough and they will not allow three separate flats to be turned back into one house because the borough loses housing stock

There is not a definitive answer to this so you will have to discuss with your local planning department.

Yes some councils don’t allow turning multiple flats into one dwelling, so this is something you need to find out asap.

How many times if you asked to know that they always will say yes? Why would they say yes when it wasn’t necessary and make more work for themselves processing unnecessary permission?

You would need change of use to turn it back into one dwelling and likely pp for the dormer, especially if on the front or in a Conservation Area. Internal works tend to fall under permitted development and buildings regulations unless you are expanding the footprint or it has already been extended. Have any neighbouring properties done similar?

@LIZS thank you! Yes many neighbouring properties have dormers, strangely on the front! All the properties surrounding are houses rather than flats.
The thing I'm struggling with is the council don't give pre-application advice. It's up to us to work out if we need permissions. Our architect has said he'll deal with it and it won't be a problem. Fingers crossed 😱

We did this about 20 years ago - Victorian house in the south of England that had been converted to four flats in the 1960s and we reinstated it as a single dwelling. Back then we contacted our local council and were told we needed neither planning permission nor change of use, which we were very surprised at.

We were unable to get a residential mortgage though and had to borrow the cash to buy from family.

I'm an architect and have dealt with a similar one up here in the NE. The council did NOT require planning permission to knock them back into a single property. However if we were splitting the property it would have required planning.
It's a quirk of the system however it can vary area to area as local restrictions may apply so unfortunately you have to ask the council.

If its just internal changes then you don't need planning permission. In most instances rear dormers don't need planning permission as long as your not in a conservation area and it's within a certain size.
Look at the planning portal website do I need permission common projects and / or contact your local councils planning department

I was advised I didn’t need planning permission so I applied for a permitted development certification. Turns out I did need planning permission. Work had already started but I got the permission through within about six weeks.

take the time to sort this now. If you ever need to sell or remortgage or neighbours complain you could be in difficulty.

Ours used to do this, they no longer do, they claim they haven't got/can't get the staff. You have to either chance it or put in for full PP. Incidentally, the department actuall made staff redundant not long ago.....

You always need consent to change flats back to a house because of decreasing the housing stock as others have said. We did this but it was in different economic times.

Planning permission was approved today, hurrah. We went for a change of use from 3 dwellings to 1 dwelling as we decided against the loft conversion in the end. Planning took exactly 8 weeks.

You wouldn’t need planning permission to reinstate the original house. THIS IS SO LONG AS THE BUILDING WAS CONSTRUCTED AS A SINGLE HOUSE AND THEN CONVERTED INTO FLATS.

however. you would need planning permission to construct a dormer as the property currently stands - because it would relate to the enlargement of a flat rather than a roof extension to a single dwelling house. And flats don’t have the same permitted development rights.

in terms of timings what you could do is make a start on the reinstatement of the original dwelling - remove additional kitchens for example and also contact council tax about the situation - get the property re-rated as a single dwelling.

You could then apply for a lawful development certificate to establish that planning permission would not have been required for the reinstatement of the single dwelling. This would act as your lawful document for future reference. Or you could apply, at the time you start the works, for a lawful development certificate for the proposed works, so long as the works commence after the submission of the application.

then you would have “reactivated” the permitted development rights that are associated with single dwellings, which include Class B (roof additions) and other classes.

Oh man! I didn’t realise it was old! Sorry.

glad was a speedy decision - straightforward applications less likely to get bogged down.