Who should pay?

[Griddera]

I'll keep it short! I'm in the early process of buying a house, it was on for £900k, I offered £880k which was accepted.

During investigations, it's been highlighted that the septic tank at the house does not meet current regulations (I paid for an independent survey) and I've had 3 quotes for installing a new system, the cheapest of the 3 quotes is £21,000.

In your opinion:

1. I, the buyer, should continue and pay for a new system after moving in
2. The seller should reduce price by £21,000
3. The seller should upgrade the system prior to buyer moving in
4. The buyer and seller split cost 50/50

Appreciate thoughts!

Depends on a whole load of stuff- if it doesn't meet current regs, does it meet the regs from when it was built? Have the regs changed recently? Is there actually something the matter with it? If there was a problem, would it be covered by insurance? Is it acceptable for mortgage purposes?
What is the surveyor saying - do they think it actually needs replacing, or just slightly upgrading?
Lots of things don't meet current standards.. eg the stairs in my Edwardian house, the insulation etc, doesn't mean it all needs to be replaced. Building standards change over the years.

Regulations change all the time. It doesn't mean the tank isnt in good working order.
Septic tank regs change fairly recently. The tanks under the old regs are still fine if they are in working order.
It's the same with oil tanks. Regs change but tanks last a decade or 2 decades and they're fine. Mine passed it's service every year, with an advisory note that regulations har changed and should it ever have any problems, the whole thing would need moved to meet current regs. I got it done when I remodelled, otherwise I would have left it as it was.

The septic tank is still in good working order? Then you buy the house at the agreed price and replace the system when it needs replacing.

does it meet the regs from when it was built?
--no regs at the time

Have the regs changed recently?
--yes, I think in 2015, with a 2020 deadline for homeowners to comply

Is there actually something the matter with it?
Yes, pollution

If there was a problem, would it be covered by insurance?
No

Is it acceptable for mortgage purposes?
No

What is the surveyor saying - do they think it actually needs replacing, or just slightly upgrading?
£21k for a system that is legal

Lots of things don't meet current standards
Agreed, but my solicitor has warned me that with the current system as a homeowner I would be liable for huge fines

The rules have changed over the past few years, but is illegal to allow unsuitable treated waste into watercourses so it is essential it is replaced. I would ask seller to go 50-50 at very least.

I would go for 4.

This is what we did when our survey raised that the roof was non-mortgageable.

If it doesn’t meet regulations, can the house legally be sold before it’s sorted out? If so, then I’m not sure why the vendors would get it fixed before you purchased.
In Scotland some tanks that don’t meet regulations must be upgraded by the seller before the property can be sold.

If the tank doesn’t meet current regs but can still legally be used and there’s nothing actually wrong with it then are you not in effect asking the vendor to pay for an upgrade (you’d not expect them to improve loft insulation, so why this?).

Your solicitor should be asking if the current tank emptied often? Is that under a contract? EG done every 2 years, with a basic amount of solids allowed and then a fairly hefty charge for anything in excess of that. If the vendors have never had any issues or excess charges then they’ll be less willing to pay for an upgrade I’d imagine!

Well they won't be able to find a seller if its unmortgageable so I would insist they get it sorted or I'd walk away.

Cross posted!

in that case, the vendor needs to sort it out before you complete your purchase (the risk of fines etc is then on them), and I’d suggest a 50/50 split if costs...

I've been advised that I can file an exemption to say that I will replace it as soon as I move in, for the mortgage to then be approved.

So the sellers and estate agents are pushing this as a solution.

In my view, why should I pay for a system that became illegal under their ownership, and why should I then incur 100% of the costs?

In that case, since the regs are actually a legal requirement which should have been followed by 2020, then the homeowner needs to pay for it.
They should have already replaced it.

Since this isnt just updated regs with no back dating then they need to do it. This is backdated and need to be complied with.

You might need to be willing to walk away though if they refuse to pay for it.

So the sellers and estate agents are pushing this as a solution.

Yeah I bet they are.

If I've understood this correctly, there have been regulation changes that have legally required owners to upgrade but they've not done it? That's their fuck up and I would not be covering the whole cost under any circumstances.

What? How come it’s so much? Normally to reposition it’s about 5 grand. I’m assuming if it’s the recent regs it’s as it’s close to a water way

that cost isn’t just putting a new tank in in a different location that’s a whole new sewage system.

Sorry I should say for a new tank in a new location with just changing the pipe work and dealing with any land issues is 4 to 5 grand. I know as I’ve the same issue

no way it’s 21 grand, that’s a whole new system and not required. I’d laugh you out the room

ask the owners to get a quote.

1. The buyer should drop the price by £20k.

The house is sold on the assumption that everything is in working order. That's why you have a survey, to check that everything is as expected.

In reality it depends a bit on how much you love the house etc. If you've got other options then tell them to stuff it but if you've fallen in love with the house and can afford the hit and think the price is still OK, then maybe agree to split the cost, or suck it up entirely. I'd be a bit miffed tbh if they just flatly refused.

I think the vendor is obliged to rectify this before he sells the property:

www.draindoctor.co.uk/about-us/hints-and-tips/item/2020-septic-tank-law-changes-what-you-need-to-know

It doesn't matter what we think or what should happen, does it?
It's entirely up to the buyer what she does, and entirely up to you whether you accept that or not.

It doesn't really come down to who should pay, it's more about what you are prepared to accept:

I, the buyer, should continue and pay for a new system after moving in - this is entirely up to you.
The seller should reduce price by £21,000 - you could tell them you want to reduce your offer to 859k and see if they accept (if not you drop out)
The seller should upgrade the system prior to buyer moving in - this will take ages, I wouldn't ask for this as they could delay for ages.
The buyer and seller split cost 50/50 - you could reduce your offer, see if they accept.
Or you withdraw your offer and not move there.

If you do proceed I wouldn't do a deal where they have to manage the work they could take a long time and it might be substandard.

Agree with Delphinium.

but @Begoniasforever adds new detail. (Lets be honest, most of us haven't a clue what it would cost) so I'd say it isn't as straightforward a 1,2,3, or 4

I'd go to the vendors with what you have uncovered and say it obviously - by law - needs to be put right, so do you want to do that before we exchange or do you want to pay / reduce your house by what it is going to cost me "as you haven't updated within the timescale that is required by law" ? Then wait.

It has to be 2 or 4 if I really really wanted that house!

The inspection stated that a new system is needed and the quotes are all suggesting a new sewerage treatment plant system. It's a 6 bed property which apparently impacts the estimate significantly.

Septic tank surveys by larger / national firms are a well known con, they aim to condem tanks that the local people who empty them know are perfectly serviceable, if you needed a new one (which you probably don't) then a good installer would put in an eco tank for a fraction. Find out who's been emptying it and ask after it in person, if its not been emptied too frequently that's a very good sign there are no issues

The survey/inspection was carried out by a recommended local guy, known to the local firm that currently empty the property's septic tank and neighbouring properties.

The septic tank is being emptied every 6 months, with 3 adults living at the property.

This is such a headache! I'd so hoped to have an easy (ish) conveyance journey with this house. I could sob. Every penny of savings is going into the purchase, I can't afford any substantial costs.

Ok that’s different to what you put in your op. Why is he recommending a whole new sewage system? Is there something wrong with the current one? Other than location? Why is it needed?

as said, to fix the legal problem it’s max four to five grand. If a whole new sewage system is required that’s nothing to do with the change in regs. You need to explain why such a thing is needed. As it’s not related to the law change.

my septic tank is emptied every six months. It’s recommended, you can indeed leave it for years but it costs a small fortune as they need to basically drill out the compressed shit. So it’s six of one, half a dozen of the other.

If you're stretching yourself to the limit to buy this house, then buy a cheaper house.