Seller being difficult about access

[MillennialFalconer]

My seller is being a right pain. We viewed the place exactly twice, both times before making an offer. Since then, we've had a surveyor return, which was arranged with him three weeks in advance.

We asked to return to bring a specialist to examine the roof due to items flagged in the survey, and also to measure up for furniture. The seller has refused any further access, and had his solicitor send a note to my solicitor, claiming that we've physically returned to the property several times with no prior notice, which is nonsense. We haven't been within a mile of the place since we put in an offer.

He is moving out in a couple of weeks into a property he's already purchased, and the property we're buying will be vacant for a couple of weeks before exchange. We said we're happy to wait until after he moves out so as not to inconvenience him and his family. That works much better for us, because the loft is packed with stored items and it will be much easier to examine the roof when it's empty. Still, he's refused any further access until completion and is refusing to guarantee that the property will be handed over with "vacant possession" (he left that box unticked on the Property Information Form).

I have a sneaking feeling that he's planning to move out and leave the property in a state (they have tonnes of furniture and children's toys everywhere), and doesn't want us to be able to see this before completion. What recourse do we have if he moves out and doesn't clear the property?

So many red flags I don’t know where to start. I would be pulling out and looking elsewhere OP.

I'm honestly not that worried about the roof itself, it's a pretty new property (2002 build). The survey just flagged it needs better ventilation, possibly some vented roof tiles, which is not an expensive fix. I only want to get someone round to quote and book the work in asap after completion before the weather gets too horrible.

I am however very worried that I'm going to turn up on move-in day to a house full of broken toys and crap in the loft. We don't have a car, so it's not like we can just suck it up and take everything to the tip.

Have you thought it is possibly inconvenient for him?
Personally I can see things from his side as well, as it appears that what you are proposing is a 4th or 5th visit.
To be honest is there really a need to measure up for furniture? He may be wary that you are looking for ways to lower your offer. and is suspicious.
As a seller of my previous property I was very obliging to my buyers and there multiple reasons for visits. Basically I felt that they should have waited until the actually owned the property.

Honestly, you’ve had quite a few visits already and I wouldn’t let a buyer in to measure up for furniture or for a quote on non essential work.

I would however consider the failure to tick the vacant possession box a pretty significant issue and would get my solicitor on this pretty sharply.

I would understand if I'd asked for five visits, but there has been one visit post offer acceptance - the survey, which is standard. And one further request for a visit to check the roof.

I was willing to accept that it wasn't convenient for him. But when he responded with a pack of lies about us showing up several times without warning, and now is refusing to say that the property will be vacant upon completion, I am now wondering exactly what it is he's hiding.

Sounds a little strange doesn’t it, I agree OP. Two viewings before an offer is standard. Then a visit to measure up seems reasonable too. What has the EA said about it? Most solicitors advise a visit before exchange to check on the condition of the property. Good luck.

We had the place we were buying stripped bare by the seller's family. So we insisted on a visit then as it was obvious there was an issue. .

Maybe wait until he moves out and then go have a nose. But it sounds dodgy, bloke clearly is a bit paranoid. Be prepared for a flounce tho.

This

The access is not an issue. Not really. That can wait.

Not giving an assurance about an empty property? That would give me the itch.

@MillennialFalconer

Tricky one.

I suppose you could wait until just before exchange & say if you aren't granted another viewing you're pulling out?

He sounds a bit 'odd' & yes not ticking the 'vacant' box is a bit strange.

Can you go and look in the windows just before exchange?

One of my kids couldn't get any other viewing of the house she bought apart from the 15 - 20 minute initial visit. Luckily I was there too so had a look at the important things! She had a full,structural survey but didn't actually see the inside of the property again until she got the keys.
The house was immaculate and the sellers left wine and a folder with all the instructions. I think they were just messy and didn't want to tidy even though we promised we didn't care.
It didn't matter but felt strange to have spent so little time seeing something that cost so much.
Luckily my daughter was sure of her decision so was ok about it

What? She’s had two viewings before offering, what you on about.

why would you possibly refuse someone access to measure up and check some issues, ? They are buying it. Not renting.

op. I’d pull out. He’s hiding something. If you cannot view before completion, which is fairly standard and recommended, then don’t complete. Make it a requirement of completion.

Tbh what you've said you want quotes for can wait - it's more likely your surveyor covering their jacksee.

However if you're getting a mortgage to buy it's likely that having "vacant possession" on completion is a condition of the mortgage offer

We had to put in vented tiles, took less than half a day. Get your solicitor to reiterate it is sold with vacant possession and all items to be cleared. Our last purchase was ex rental and had large furniture left so the EA organised house clearance on the day to remove it.

Your seller doesn’t have to allow any more access, @MillennialFalconer - it is at their discretion to allow it.

However, I share the previous posters’ disquiet that the ‘Vacant possession’ box on the seller’s form has not been ticked. I would advise you to get your solicitor to contact the seller’s solicitor, to say that, until this is ticked, and vacant possession is guaranteed, you will not be produced if any further.

Will you even get a mortgage without accent possession?

I wouldn't be continuing until that box was ticket about vacant possession!

Sorry, these came in as I was replying but you (and a for PPs) have nailed exactly what's bothering me - the worry about 'vacant possession'. I will make sure my solicitor reiterates this, and that our sellers' solicitors make sure they understand that this means "empty of all contents" including the rubbish in the loft.

My worry is, what do I do when we turn up on completion day only to find that the sellers have left loads behind? I keep seeing elsewhere that the buyer usually just winds up paying several hundred pounds in disposal fees / additional storage fees because it's just more costly to enforce / collect from the seller for breach of contract.

I hate the house buying system in this country.

I wouldn't be worried about the refusal to allow another visit. Frustrating for you, yes. Equally, I imagine multiple visits might be frustrating for him and I'd be worried about you looking for a reason to drop your offer in his position. My parents have recently bought and the sellers of the house refused to let them back to measure up for furniture etc. The house was vacant at the time so not putting anyone out, but it was their prerogative. All was fine when they completed.

I'd be much more worried about the refusal to guarantee vacant possession and I'd absolutely be getting your solicitor onto that. Focus on that rather than the visits.

Isn't the issue with vacant possession that the house could be full of tenants or squatters? A load of stuff left behind might be the least of your problems.

Vacant possession is people not contents

If there's a language barrier I would strongly suspect they don't understand what vacant possession means. Many native speakers don't. It just means no one will be living there.

All the documents I’ve seen also make reference to the property being cleared of all possessions that are not included in the sale as well as rubbish, not just people.

People left in residence are a bigger problem than furniture