What room goes where?? Who can help me please?

[SpidersAreShitheads]

As we have now - finally!! - got planning permission, I need to seriously plan out the downstairs space.

We're having a full width extension across the back of the house which will go out by about 15ft (making it 15ft x 25ft wide). (Apologies to those who work in metres, I have no idea what the metric is!)

We had multiple issues with the architect (VERY long story) but basically I'm not sure they've got the layout right. I've had a go at re-doing it.

What I need:

A decent sized kitchen/diner
A lounge
A study that's big enough to be a little snug/small reception
A shower room
Hallway

There's a fireplace between the current living room and dining room so I don't really want to knock that wall down but any of the other walls can go if needed.

Ideally the snug/study would have doors that open onto the living room so we can semi-join the spaces.

I have come up with a layout that I quite like but I'm not sure it's practical. From the living room we would have to walk all the way round the dining room and kitchen to get back to the front door. There's no point putting two doors in the study to cut through from the living room to the front door (as DP will be working in there pretty much every day in the week 8am to 6pm so it will be out of bounds).

I know it's not everyone's ideal, but I like open plan. The utility kitchen part is where I'd plan on putting the noisy stuff like washing machine and dishwasher.

I've seen some brilliant ideas on here. What does this layout look like (aside from the fact it looks like a 5yr old's scribble)?

Just for info, the door you can see on the left-hand side of the current kitchen leads directly into DM's annexe.

Attached is the current layout, with the size of the annexe shown in blue, and my stunningly drawn plans showing my ideas for a layout. I'd really appreciate any comments at all.

You’re paying a qualified experienced architect but trying to do a better job yourself? Can you not get your architect to adapt the plans after discussions? Or get a more amenable architect?
Its a lot of money and time and stress to spend based on unqualified advice from Mumsnet 😎

@nozbottheblue I know, it's ridiculous. It's a very long story but basically, hell will freeze over before we go back to the "architect".

Firstly, they won't do it for free even though they haven't done what we originally asked them to. It was all paid in advance.

Secondly, he misled us over the fact of being an architect. He's not a qualified architect. I suspect he's an "architectural consultant" or similar. I put up a post previously on here to get advice. I feel that it's my fault because I didn't go to the architect register and double check his qualifications. He responded to my advert for an architect via one of the trusted portal sites, had good reviews (fake??) and seemed incredibly knowledgeable. Website looked good - but in retrospect it's very carefully worded. I should have double checked. I didn't even realise there was a register of architects. Ugh. My lack of experience tripped me up - and I'm normally really rigorous so been kicking myself. I referred to him as an architect in multiple conversations with him, and at no point has he corrected me and said he's not an architect. So he's been incredibly misleading but ultimately, it was on me to check and I didn't.

I don't have another spare £3k to chuck away on another architect especially with the cost of building work etc increasing like mad. But I don't think I need another architect as all the structural drawings etc have been done, and I have a structural engineer sorting the steels etc. Building reg application will be covered by the builders so it's just someone creative to help me design the flow of the inside spaces first. I was thinking about finding someone who specialises on reconfiguring interiors but I wanted to go to them with an idea first. And that's where I was hoping to get some ideas here as I've seen some fab suggestions from MN who have experience/are good at this kind of thing!

Okay stop beating yourself up about the architect. It's done now. There are some charlatans out there.

Are there any views/garden to the front, rear or side?
Any load bearing walls or walls that have to stay apart from the fireplace one?
Where do drains run?
Is the extension single or double storey? Eg. Is there any glazing in the extension roof?
Does the annexe door have to stay exactly where it is?

This might help.
Good luck

I've previously paid an architect a few hundred pounds to come round and chat through ideas on a house as opposed to a full on job. Could you do that? I'm not convinced by your layout. It all feels a bit like a corridor wrapped around the study. Plus it looks like there aren't any doors from the utility to the kitchen so you'll get all the noise of the appliances in the open plan space?

@Charleymouse, ah thank you, you're very kind. I just wanted to be clear that I'm aware I screwed up even though the man is a giant arse.

To answer your questions.

The annexe door needs to stay where it is.

There's space to the side but it's "belongs" to the annexe, so effectively it's just front and rear for us.

There's a lovely garden to the rear - probably about another 65-70ft beyond the extension so it's a nice view to look out on. The plans include two sets of double doors to open out into the garden - one in front of where I've labelled the dining and living areas (the doors are also marked on my drawing in brown). In time, we'll have a patio outside the doors but need to get the building work sorted first!

Private front garden but not something you'd want to sit and look at as we have a huge, tall hedge for privacy. Back garden is south facing so lovely and light.

There is drainage to the back and front.

Couple of roof lights in the extension. Single storey extension.

Other than the fireplace I think pretty much any of the walls could go. Our thoughts were to knock out the dining room wall to the back, and widen the current kitchen opening. We're getting a quote for an RSJ to knock out the dining room back wall (this was in the architect plans).

The study has no windows, I wouldn't like that. I've got a much better layout but don't know how to add a picture. We do lots of house renovations and like open plan. It's nice to have a big utility to keep noisy things in and you definitely want a window in your shower room.

The finances for this are really complicated. It's a really complex build because we're having to build an annexe while also trying to get the shell of the building work done before we actually move in (I have two autistic DC, one with particularly high needs). So when my current house sells, I'll have the money to do all the work on the inside but until then there's not a lot spare.

I'm not trying to be cagey but I don't want to bore anyone on here with the details haha! I'm autistic/ADHD myself so sometimes struggle a bit working what to say, and what is irrelevant 🤦🏻‍♀️😅

We were originally getting the annexe built first, and then ours later, but for various reasons DM wants both the annexe and our extension built now, with the internal reconfiguring done after. The trouble is, the walls would need to be knocked through at the same time, and I don't know which ones we want to take out until we figure out the layout!

Unplanned spending now - even a few hundred - wouldn't be ideal, to say the least, but I'm not sure it can wait.

I know what you mean about wrapping round the study. I think it will feel like a pain in the arse traipsing round, and like you say, a bit corridor-ish.

I'm not too worried about the noise. The utility is a long way from the living room area. In my current house, the kitchen is right next to the living room and there's no door between them. It doesn't bother us now so I'm fairly certain I won't notice a thing. Plus, we were considering sliding/concertina/other doors between the utility and main kitchen area. Haven't decided yet though!

The architectural guy said a shower room with no windows is OK as you put an extractor fan in? He said that's one of the only rooms you should put in the middle of the house away from a window? I'm not fussed about a window in the shower room but obviously I don't want it to get damp etc!

The study, I agree. DP says he doesn't mind not having a window in there but I'm not sure. The idea is that the double doors can open up so it would "join" the living room later on, which will be very light and airy.

Basically we need the study to be suitable as a small snug, as sometimes I need to sit with my DS in a quiet room that's not the living room (he gets overstimulated). So a room with no windows, where we can shut the doors would work well as a quiet space.

Also, the plan was to chuck DP's gaming stuff in there - on an evening he could sit and play but have the doors open to still be near us as he doesn't like going off to another room to do it. If his stuff is in the living room it's bloody annoying because it means he takes over the TV for 4-5 hours and me/DC can't watch a film on an evening together. I know if it's an actual separate room somewhere else he won't use it and the gaming stuff will sneak back into the living room!!

Sorry, this is all relevant. It's so bloody much to think about and I'm crap at this hahaha!!

This layout just doesn't work, does it?!

ps @minidancer - I would love to see/hear more about your layout??

Try looking for the same type of house and same type of ext that have been done.

Your house made perfect (tv show) had a few of these.

Have you thought about keeping the dining room and kitchen, just knock them together and use the kitchen windows for that room.

Then have the lounge space as the snug, enter through that into the extension and have the extension as a living room.

I think that's more or less exactly what I've put on my plan? The only issue is that I need to fit a shower room in somewhere too. Plus as a PP highlighted, once the extension is up, it means there will be no windows/light going into the snug if I put it where the living room is now..... I do think knocking the current kitchen and dining room together makes perfect sense for the kitchen, it's just how everything else fits around that...

I will have a look for Your House Made Perfect, thank you!

We have a shower room with no window, just an extractor fan and it's absolutely fine.

What I wouldn't like with your plan is that everyone has to walk through the utility to get to the nice bits of the house. Could you put the shower room or study where that is and make a little corridor where the shower is on the plan?

Aaah that's good to know @Zonder thank you!

I actually said exactly the same to DP this afternoon about having to walk through the utility area to get to the lounge!

I can't put the study there because that's the entrance to the annexe. DP does a ton of video calls so needs to close the door. That means me/DC can't pop in to see DM during the day without going out of the house and around the front. DC are both autistic, and DS has high needs so absolutely couldn't be trusted to open the front door safely.

I have wondered about sectioning off part of the current kitchen (what will be the utility room) to make the shower room. The door to the annexe could come into the utility and the bathroom would come off the hall. I'd actually prefer this layout but the issue is the kitchen has a massive window almost right across the front. So there's no way to easily split this between a shower room and a utility room, plus obviously not really appropriate to have a massive window like that in a shower room facing the front 😅 I'll add a photo from one of the old house listings so you can see what I mean.

I have kept wondering whether there's a way to section the kitchen lengthways without touching the window to make the shower room, but then that leaves a weird little cupboard like space in front of part of the window!

Hi OP. I would take the current kitchen, split it so half would be a shower room accessed from the hallway and half would be a utility accessed from your new kitchen and with a door to outside.

If you would like an enclosed space for a study I would leave it on the right hand wall where it is and have a corridor cut through on the left hand side leading to the open plan area? I would put sliding doors into the study from the new lounge area so it can be opened for light and be incorporated into the lounge if you prefer.

I’m not sure if this would make your rooms too small and if I’m understanding you properly it would leave your fireplace weirdly in the corridor but it’s the layout I would choose.

Apologies, cross post, I didn’t realise how large the kitchen window was.

Just wondering, is it possible to move your front door?

Can you move the existing front door to the existing kitchen? Then you can put the shower where the front door is. Existing kitchen becomes the hall. Existing dining room becomes the office/sng. Then you use the lounge as the new kitchen with a door through to the hall/stairs. You can either section off part of that as a utility, or you put a neatly made utility cupboard in the new hall to conceal washer and dryer..
Or make existing front door big utility cupboard and put shower into new hall or section off small amount of new kitchen.

@A1b2c3d4e5f6g7 and @Muddledandbefuddled - great minds think alike! I can see how that could potentially work but I need planning permission to move the front door. It's taken six months to get basic planning permission for the back simply due to the backlog, and we've only got a decision now because I contacted them and begged because my disabled DM's health is suffering. I think DP and DM would lock me in the cupboard if I said I wanted to go back to Planning and ask for something else haha!

Not sure whether I'd get planning permission to move the front door (not that I'm in a position to wait anyway). All of the doors/houses on the street are in identical positions so it's all very symmetrical - don't think they like changing that, do they? Just hypothetically I mean 😅

Are you able to have any windows on the left side external wall?

I wouldn't have the shower door facing out onto the front door, it's too communal an area to do that. I would do as pp suggested and convert your current kitchen into a utility room and shower room. Then I would move the study to the right and have a corridor leading into the back between the kitchen and the study. It could even be an open corridor but it would lead you that way and help with zoning.

First of all, don’t have any room you use without a window. That’s never going to work. Secondly don’t ever think an office/snug will be an addition to a lounge. It will always look messy! Just won’t be used as you think.
Thirdly put all utility elements behind closed doors. You don’t need to see the washing machine etc! Get bespoke cupboards and hide them.

I would use the extension as the kitchen and dining area. It’s got access to the back garden so why would you keep the kitchen at the front?

You have an issue with a central fireplace. Plus you have no decent access to the kitchen because there is no hall running back to front. I would open up the current “lounge” to the hall to make a big space, and then have the shower accessed from there. Also build in office furniture into that space. I have similar. My office space is built into a very big hall. It’s build in and opens up when in use. Closed off when not used. This new hall room in your house gets light from the front of the house and the back. You make it a wide working hall giving access to the kitchen at the back.

Lastly, have the lounge where the kitchen snd dining area are. Open that up with the extension if you like. Anyway, that’s my ideas!

For me the utility and snug seem as if they should be swapped. With a door between the new utility and kitchen. Not sure if that would work in practice, but that seems a more logical flow to me

Could you have something like this?
you would need to put a window in the study and a door from either the utility room or kitchen into the study. B/R is shower room.

I wouldn't want a galley style kitchen the way you've drawn it with that being the only access into your lounge and dining area. Particularly if you've got kids, it's not very safe when someone is cooking.

I Think this looks good. People often have to walk through utility to get to downstairs loo/shower rooms also means that you have more wall space for kitchen and it isn’t as galley like.