Page 3 | Vendor blocking us having electrical survey

Curlyfifteen · 2022-10-15T18:05:14+00:00

We are deep in the process of buying a house. Over all the house is in good condition and looks nice (its not a renovation project etc). Our survey revealed some questions over electrics and fire safety. In addition the vendor has no part p certificates. Note the property has been extended several times by different owners and no one has obtained building completion certificates so one can assume the electrics may not have been formally checked then either. Have asked to send in an electrician, vendor insisted on having their electrician and they have suggested £2k of work which the vendor wants to do before we move in. We want to do our own electrical survey based on the surveyors notes (covering more than what as been checked by the sellers electrician). She is refusing to let us do this. We have said we prefer to do any works when we move in as we can oversee it. She prefers she do it and not for our electrician to visit til she has completed the work (which doesn't cover all that needs doing). We are all working to an agreed date, and this will throw that date off completely. I feel like its very odd we cannot have our electrician survey - its at our cost after all! Any insight or opinions welcome

Original poster

Curlyfifteen · 30/10/2022 21:44

they were 2000, 2011 and 2013 i believe.

surveyor thinks its ok but as he said, has no xray eyes to see how well the building was constructed (foundations, plumbing, insulation etc) . But believes that the structure as good.

OP posts:

applesapplesapples · 31/10/2022 13:56

Sounds like there are a few compliance gaps with this property. If they can be resolved, at the vendors expense, great. If not, I wouldn't go ahead as the property may be difficult to sell later.

MiniCooperLover · 31/10/2022 14:17

No way should you be buying with all that level of information outstanding. Kitchen built on TOP of drainage? That's not an easy one to resolve. Their unwillingness to play ball at all is making my spider senses all tingly!

BlueMongoose · 01/11/2022 14:36

"build over agreement - apparently this only applies after 2011 and extension is from earlier."
Who told you that? Genuine question- as we may have this issue here one day over a garage- it's not clear where the utility runs. We took the risk as it's not the end of the world even if the utility insisted on their right to demolish it, which I think is unlikely anyway in our case for various reasons, but in my digging I didn't find anything about it being okay before 2011, unless the date has changed since I was looking three years ago. I think our building dates from the 70s or at latest, early 80s, but from my reading at the time we bought, that didn't make it exempt.

BlueMongoose · 01/11/2022 14:41

pattihews · 29/10/2022 12:20

Just go ahead. The most it'll cost you to put the situation right is £5k or so. Probably not even that. Offer them £5k less and proceed to completion. The market is stalling and they won't want to have to go through another six months of this on a falling market.

Sounds as if you're making this into a real drama. Buying a secondhand house always involves an element of risk. At least the electrics are a limited area of risk. You only have to spend so much on them. You could blow much, much more on buying a property and discovering damp or rot that a surveyor was unable to detect.

Rewiring and tidying up plasterwork from chiselling in here cost about 8 grand three years ago not including the kitchen or garage supply, though it included moving the consumer unit. Kitchen and other house bits has been a further 2 grand since. And it's not a massive house, just a 3-4 bed det. in NW England.

A survey done for a seller isn't worth the paper it is written on to a buyer.

Original poster

Curlyfifteen · 01/11/2022 19:06

BlueMongoose · 01/11/2022 14:36

"build over agreement - apparently this only applies after 2011 and extension is from earlier."
Who told you that? Genuine question- as we may have this issue here one day over a garage- it's not clear where the utility runs. We took the risk as it's not the end of the world even if the utility insisted on their right to demolish it, which I think is unlikely anyway in our case for various reasons, but in my digging I didn't find anything about it being okay before 2011, unless the date has changed since I was looking three years ago. I think our building dates from the 70s or at latest, early 80s, but from my reading at the time we bought, that didn't make it exempt.

Hopefully this will help.

alwenajonesbright.co.uk/build-over-agreements-sewage-pipes/

Extensions that were in place before October 2011

If the property was extended over a public sewer before October 2011 then provided the pipe which was built over was private you would not need a Build Over Agreement. The October 2011 laws applied predominantly to pipes connected from properties directly into public sewers which may well have been situated along the public highway or along the rear of the property. This meant that the pipes directly linking the property to those mains pipes are most likely private and such when an extension was built over them, they remained private and a Build over Agreement would not have been necessary. It is important thought o establish when exactly the extension works were undertaken to see whether a Build Over Agreement was applicable at that time.

OP posts:

Original poster

Curlyfifteen · 01/11/2022 19:09

pattihews · 29/10/2022 12:20

Just go ahead. The most it'll cost you to put the situation right is £5k or so. Probably not even that. Offer them £5k less and proceed to completion. The market is stalling and they won't want to have to go through another six months of this on a falling market.

Sounds as if you're making this into a real drama. Buying a secondhand house always involves an element of risk. At least the electrics are a limited area of risk. You only have to spend so much on them. You could blow much, much more on buying a property and discovering damp or rot that a surveyor was unable to detect.

Thanks for your view, it is quite different from the majority. May I ask what your background is - do you do something in the property field or have you bought and sold a few times? Just want to better understand your point of view.

OP posts:

pattihews · 01/11/2022 20:43

I've bought and sold six times in my life (I'm probably older than you). I've paid a small fortune in 'thorough' surveys that have failed to show up damp and dry rot and have had to do remedial work on almost every one of them. I don't like most modern houses, so most of those I've owned have been 100 years old or more. My work involves electricians. My guys charge between £300 - 400 a day. Most average houses can be rewired in a week to ten days for around £6k. I think whoever said they'd spent £60k on electrics must have added an extra 0!

If a house suits you, if it's in a decent location and you can imagine your family living happily there: if it's in decent order and it's likely that any work you have to do with it will come in relatively cheaply (by which I mean less than say £15k) then I'd go ahead.

I think it would be daft to miss out on a house that you could live happily in for the foreseeable future and instead take yourself off to a place you don't particularly want to live because there's a house at the right price there. My attitude, I admit, is influenced by the fact that I'm older and have a bit of spare money these days. If you were a FTB or maxing yourself out I'd offer different advice, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

I see that there's some question about a drain running under an extension and no sign-off from the council. I haven't experienced that so can't comment. You could investigate the possibility of the owners taking out an indemnity insurance policy to cover any issues involving that. Your solicitor will know what I'm talking about. I might get a builder to come out and tell me what the potential problems might be and how much it would cost to put right. I wouldn't bother with a surveyor: surveyors exaggerate the problems and the cost of sorting them out.

The property market's cooling and prices are starting to drop. I'd try to negotiate a reduction in price with the vendors to cover the electrics. They will be aware that the market is changing and if they don't sell now they may not be able to sell later.

Generally, my point is that no property is ever going to be perfect and there will always be a risk that something will crop up once you've moved in. I've seen new builds that were riddled with issues that took years to sort out, even though they had NHBC guarantees.

Good luck. I hope that if you decide against this property you'll find something that suits you better without too much compromise.

Strictlyfanoftenyears · 01/11/2022 23:32

pattihews · 01/11/2022 20:43

I've bought and sold six times in my life (I'm probably older than you). I've paid a small fortune in 'thorough' surveys that have failed to show up damp and dry rot and have had to do remedial work on almost every one of them. I don't like most modern houses, so most of those I've owned have been 100 years old or more. My work involves electricians. My guys charge between £300 - 400 a day. Most average houses can be rewired in a week to ten days for around £6k. I think whoever said they'd spent £60k on electrics must have added an extra 0!

If a house suits you, if it's in a decent location and you can imagine your family living happily there: if it's in decent order and it's likely that any work you have to do with it will come in relatively cheaply (by which I mean less than say £15k) then I'd go ahead.

I think it would be daft to miss out on a house that you could live happily in for the foreseeable future and instead take yourself off to a place you don't particularly want to live because there's a house at the right price there. My attitude, I admit, is influenced by the fact that I'm older and have a bit of spare money these days. If you were a FTB or maxing yourself out I'd offer different advice, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

I see that there's some question about a drain running under an extension and no sign-off from the council. I haven't experienced that so can't comment. You could investigate the possibility of the owners taking out an indemnity insurance policy to cover any issues involving that. Your solicitor will know what I'm talking about. I might get a builder to come out and tell me what the potential problems might be and how much it would cost to put right. I wouldn't bother with a surveyor: surveyors exaggerate the problems and the cost of sorting them out.

The property market's cooling and prices are starting to drop. I'd try to negotiate a reduction in price with the vendors to cover the electrics. They will be aware that the market is changing and if they don't sell now they may not be able to sell later.

Generally, my point is that no property is ever going to be perfect and there will always be a risk that something will crop up once you've moved in. I've seen new builds that were riddled with issues that took years to sort out, even though they had NHBC guarantees.

Good luck. I hope that if you decide against this property you'll find something that suits you better without too much compromise.

I completely agree. You are buying a house, allow for some obvious maintenance. You could have all the certificates in the world but in reality they dont mean a lot anyway. If you try to sue anyone its far too much hassle (which they know).