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Reducing Offer Price or Walking Away

50 replies

homeownerwannabe2022 · 11/10/2022 11:45

Hi everyone, I would really value some insights on how to move forward in my situation.

I had an offer accepted on a house back in late July, and things have been moving along fine. But I'm starting to feel uneasy about proceeding given the sudden impact on interest rates and the expectations of house prices to decrease in 2023 as a result. My sellers have a good mortgage rate locked in (they told me this), but I didn't get to this point yet (I'm a FTB, perhaps a rookie move). Thus, they are keen to complete very quickly, or else they will be stuck with a high rate like me.

I am lucky in that I have a good sized cash deposit, but the rise of interest rates is still going to cost me quite a bit. I just got my survey back, and the suggested amount of work/additional surveys is about 20K. I know these can be overly cautious, but this coupled with the higher interest rates is giving my head a wobble. I feel as if I have 2 options:

  1. Pull out and hope that I can find a comparable home for a lower price (thus have a smaller mortgage) in 2023. I've already seen houses on Rightmove being reduced or sitting for months that would have sold in days earlier this year, so it does seem that the market is slowing down.
  2. Try to renegotiate the asking price from 410K down to something that factors in the survey and the market so that I feel comfortable proceeding (but what is reasonable? I don't want to be cheeky, but I also don't want to make a bad investment)

What would you do? Thanks for reading this.

OP posts:
Bodgejobvendors · 11/10/2022 15:19

I’m another one that doesn’t understand how you don’t have your mortgage sorted. Did the agent not start chasing you to apply asap?

Given you are in this position though you’re in the odd position of being able to walk away without losing much. Prices will likely come down and it doesn’t sound like you love this house. Lenders have priced in rate rises so it’s unlikely that another delay is going to screw you on rates now.

The vendors may give you short shrift on a discount though. Surveys nearly always say work is needed. Guess what, that’s what happens you own a house. What has it thrown up?

rainingsnoring · 11/10/2022 16:00

DeadHouseBounce · 11/10/2022 15:11

We are on the verge of a Sterling crisis, you shouldn`t be buying just now, RUN away.

Another sterling crisis!
I would pull out OP and learn the lessons for next time.

oiltrader · 11/10/2022 16:35

reduce offer massively. market has changed. if you don't feel embarrassed with the new offer then it is not low enough

NoWordForFluffy · 11/10/2022 17:21

Chateaudiaries · 11/10/2022 12:34

Fluffy the market has changed considerably.

True. She's been an appalling buyer though. I only have sympathy for the vendor

TimeforZeroes · 11/10/2022 17:25

Why did you wait this long? Is it because you were secretly hoping both the survey and the market downturn would give you leverage to offer less?

Idontgiveagriffindamn · 11/10/2022 18:22

Oh my word are you serious? You’re 3 months in and you don’t have a mortgage? Do you even have a product booked???

vera99 · 11/10/2022 19:35

Liz Truss said this financial crisis is worse than 2008 and we are at the beginnings of a global slump of everything with house prices leading the way. Walk away keep your powder dry and wait till spring. There's a minimum 10% price reduction coming and probably more. If you got a good cash deposit and a secure job then the boot will be on your foot then. Regard this process as a learning curve. Your current vendor may not have realised the market had changed that much and will also see you as CF anyway.

ChicCroissant · 11/10/2022 20:13

So you've not progressed your purchase at all, house prices haven't dropped but interest rates have risen and you want your vendor to cover your increased costs, basically? No, I don't think they will (or should).

If you really think house prices will decrease next year, buy then not now. But if you are the kind of buyer who thought they would also drop with Brexit or covid, bear in mind that was not a winning strategy either. How much have house prices risen over the last 12 months in the area that you are looking in?

SwanBuster · 11/10/2022 20:45

I think you’ve definitely learned a lesson in getting the finances in place before reaching this stage.

That said even @DeadHouseBounce is more bullish than me on house prices, and they are clearly an Uber bear too 😂

So in your position, I’d just say ‘I’m terribly sorry, but given the recent financial market turmoil, short/medium term prospects have obviously changed and I have to pull out. I appreciate this is difficult news but the risk as a first time buyer is currently not something I’m comfortable with.’

Don’t mention the mortgage.

vera99 · 11/10/2022 20:48

SwanBuster · 11/10/2022 20:45

I think you’ve definitely learned a lesson in getting the finances in place before reaching this stage.

That said even @DeadHouseBounce is more bullish than me on house prices, and they are clearly an Uber bear too 😂

So in your position, I’d just say ‘I’m terribly sorry, but given the recent financial market turmoil, short/medium term prospects have obviously changed and I have to pull out. I appreciate this is difficult news but the risk as a first time buyer is currently not something I’m comfortable with.’

Don’t mention the mortgage.

Nicely put.

Talkwhilstyouwalk · 11/10/2022 21:01

homeownerwannabe2022 · 11/10/2022 13:46

Thanks all. I of course did not have intentions of being an "awful buyer" - I have an AIP, but I'm new to this process and clearly learned a lesson about when I need to apply for the mortgage. I can still afford to buy the property given the new rates, but I am feeling very pressured by the whole situation as things are changing very suddenly, and I don't want to regret my decision as these very difficult economic times.

I think people are being unfair on you here. You have a mortgage in principle and surely that's all anyone can ask for until exchange/completion. I found the following info:

Some lenders say the rate is secured once an agreement in principle has been given, some only upon lodging a full application or when the mortgage offer has been made and some even reserve the right to change it up until completion. In a nutshell though, there’s nothing technically that could stop a lender changing terms any time up until completion.

You absolutely have the right to walk away if you want to. Given the change in market, interest rates, results of the survey etc you need to do what's best for you....

Tootlingalong · 11/10/2022 22:15

Wow, very little surprises me these days but this really has. How on earth have you managed to get this far into the buying process without a mortgage application in process? Somebody needs sacking! Many estate agents only confirm the house is sstc or under offer once the survey is booked for the mortgage application.
Obviously what you do now is up to you and how you feel about this house, but please don't string the poor vendors along any longer if you don't want to progress.

vera99 · 11/10/2022 22:21

When I have sold in the past the first thing I wanted to know was the status of the buyer in detail. There is an EA maxim that a good buyer is better than a good price. The vendor's EA has been seriously deficient in this one can hardly blame a FTB for naivety.

LondonLovie · 11/10/2022 22:26

Sounds like you have cold feet due to the interest rate issues. Understandable, but it's a bit bad form to use the survey as a springboard into clawing the money back...

rrrrrreatt · 11/10/2022 22:32

Talkwhilstyouwalk · 11/10/2022 21:01

I think people are being unfair on you here. You have a mortgage in principle and surely that's all anyone can ask for until exchange/completion. I found the following info:

Some lenders say the rate is secured once an agreement in principle has been given, some only upon lodging a full application or when the mortgage offer has been made and some even reserve the right to change it up until completion. In a nutshell though, there’s nothing technically that could stop a lender changing terms any time up until completion.

You absolutely have the right to walk away if you want to. Given the change in market, interest rates, results of the survey etc you need to do what's best for you....

You can’t exchange with an agreement in principle, it’s not property specific or a guarantee of a mortgage. It just tells you how much you COULD borrow based on your income and a soft credit check.

If people waited until exchange/completion to apply and the bank undervalued or wanted an in person survey or the full credit check threw up something unexpected most sales would be carnage with chains collapsing constantly.

YoBeaches · 11/10/2022 22:33

You have every right to walk away until
The contracts are exchanged and even then you can walk away and forfeit the deposit.

It's a transactional process that caters for people changing their minds.

Do what you feel is right. My advice is to buy a house you can live on for many years if you need to so you can ride out the up and down economic issues it's they arise. If this isn't that type of house then probably don't buy it.

Origami1234 · 12/10/2022 09:10

Ten years ago, when I was a buyer to a house. On the day before exchange, I was told by the agent that the seller went see the property they were buying for the last time the day before. They saw something the wife did not like. So they pull out. At the time, I had spent solicitor fees, survey fees, been through all the checking. The only thing we got at the end is a sorry from the agent. The seller did not lose anything.
The whole property purchase process bears bigger burden to buyers.
Right now the house market starts to fall with interest increasing. Sellers may feel unhappy about buyers hesitation. In a flying market, sells may not be bothered at all. On the contrary, we hear stories sellers gazumping.

vera99 · 12/10/2022 09:15

Expect to see the verb gazunder coming back.

gazunder
/ɡəˈzʌndə/
verbINFORMAL•BRITISH
gerund or present participle: gazundering
lower the amount of an offer that one has made to (the seller of a property), typically just before the exchange of contracts.
"the couple have just been gazundered in one of London's most expensive areas"

steppemum · 12/10/2022 09:50

leaving aside the mortgage issue.

Surveys can and do mean that the house price could (note 'could' nothing stronger) be renegotiated.

if the £20k is really substansiated by the survey, eg there is a clear problem on the roof, which will need doing in the next year. Then that is a reason for going back to the vendor and renegotiating. It would not be unreasonable to drop the house price by the amount of the repair work needed.

DeadHouseBounce · 12/10/2022 15:18

ChicCroissant · 11/10/2022 20:13

So you've not progressed your purchase at all, house prices haven't dropped but interest rates have risen and you want your vendor to cover your increased costs, basically? No, I don't think they will (or should).

If you really think house prices will decrease next year, buy then not now. But if you are the kind of buyer who thought they would also drop with Brexit or covid, bear in mind that was not a winning strategy either. How much have house prices risen over the last 12 months in the area that you are looking in?

"But if you are the kind of buyer who thought they would also drop with Brexit or covid, bear in mind that was not a winning strategy either."

LOL. That is because the cheap credit taps were still fully open, they even opened more taps for Covid! The taps are now off, you shouldn`t even think about buying just now, let people who over-borrowed for property unwind their positions and sort their mess out first. You will get a much cheaper property down the road.

Blix · 12/10/2022 15:29

@DeadHouseBounce slight derail here but you seem confident!
DS has a substantial deposit and was planning on buying soon. He's obviously cautious now. Do you think prices will plateau in 2023 or should he wait longer?

vera99 · 12/10/2022 15:46

www.ft.com/content/528500c8-7cfa-4aaf-9fca-7692aafeb9ce

Soaring mortgage rates to pile pressure on property markets worldwide
Housing markets face seismic change as low-interest rate environment ends

There is little incentive to sell in a down-market. But higher costs for remortgaging could put pressure on some homeowners to trade at a discount. ©
A decade-long party for homeowners is coming to an end. The cost of servicing mortgages in the UK, Europe and the US has spiralled at the same time as disposable incomes have been squeezed, and predictions of a downturn or even a house price crash are now common.

Last week, Knight Frank forecast that house prices in London would fall 10 per cent over the next two years — a highly unusual move for an estate agency, which adds to independent analysis and bank predictions of falls at least that across the UK.

How could housing markets, which have felt nothing but price growth for a decade, tip into crash territory?

The financial crisis in 2008 offered a chastening lesson in the dangers of borrowing excessively against housing.

Back then about one in seven mortgages were highly leveraged with loan to value ratios equal to, or greater than, 90 per cent. In the years since, banks have tightened their lending criteria with only 4 per cent having the same borrowing levels.

Today’s borrowers must raise relatively large deposits and demonstrate they can withstand interest rate rises. Reckless lending has largely been kept in check, reducing the danger of homeowners slipping into negative equity.

The other key feature of the past decade has been rock-bottom interest rates — allowing buyers to take on large mortgages at low monthly costs.

In turn, anyone able to build up a deposit could afford a pricier property — betting on repaying it as long as rates remained low and the mortgage term was long enough. Low rates have in effect made larger homes affordable, driving up house prices in return and crowding out those unable to raise cash for a deposit or tap the “bank of mum and dad”.

But rates have spiked higher this year — with the Federal Reserve raising the base rate from 0.25 per cent to 3.25 per cent and the Bank of England and ECB following suit — and markets are expecting they will continue to rise sharply into next year as central banks try to contain runaway inflation.

Suddenly, that affordability picture has changed dramatically.

“Only 2-3 months ago we were saying interest rates [in the UK] of up to 3 per cent would be a challenge, given affordability. Markets are now anticipating mortgage rates going up to around 6 per cent,” said Noble Francis, economics director of the Construction Products Association.

Rising interest rates have had an immediate impact. Mortgage lenders in the UK rushed to pull products after chancellor Kwasi Kwarteng’s tax-cutting “mini” Budget last month drove up expectations of a rate rise.

Anyone buying a house today in the UK will face far higher mortgage borrowing costs as a result. Mortgage payments, as proportion of income for first time buyers, are roughly 17 per cent on average, according to data from consultancy BuiltPlace.

However, it's not just those at the start of property ownership. There is also an effect that will be felt more gradually. Each month, tens or hundreds of thousands of homeowners in the UK roll off fixed-term deals and have to remortgage. When they do they will face costs that are far higher than what they currently pay — and some may be pushed to sell.

“In a period of time where the majority of people are likely to endure real wage falls, it’s a perfect storm for homeowners who have purchased in the last 10 years and are not used to high mortgage rates,” said Francis.

There are signs that higher borrowing costs are already impacting demand for new homes, with property portal Rightmove reporting that activity from prospective buyers was down last week on recent averages — albeit modestly.

Ebbing demand will reduce transactions in the UK from an already-low base by historical standards. Lower demand typically puts a lid on house price growth and a paucity of transactions means data can be skewed by a limited number of deals.

“Clearly what you’re going to see is a much lower transactions housing market dominated by needs-based movers and the cash rich,” said Lucian Cook, head of UK residential research at estate agent Savills.

In the US, there is already evidence of heat coming out of the sales market, with transaction volumes falling across several large cities.

FT analysis of data provided by real estate company Zillow to the end of July 2022, shows that month-on-month growth in home sales in the US has fallen from 4.4 per cent at the height of post-pandemic rebound during the middle of 2021, to a low of -2.2 per cent on a 12-month rolling basis.

Outside of necessity — death, debt and divorce are frequently cited as the three biggest drivers of sales by estate agents — there is little incentive to sell in a down-market. But higher costs for remortgaging could put pressure on some homeowners to trade at a discount, dragging down average prices that are set by recorded transactions.

Dwindling sales numbers, stretched affordability and pressure on remortgaging homeowners could precipitate painful price corrections in the UK, US and elsewhere.

In the aftermath of Kwarteng’s budget, multiple forecasts now have average UK house prices falling more than 10 per cent on a nominal basis over the next two years. Thanks to the run-up in prices during the pandemic, even a fall that steep would only push prices back to levels recorded in May 2021.

But the consequences could nonetheless be dire, particularly for recent buyers. Because inflation is running at such high levels in the US and Europe, a 10 fall in nominal prices would represent a real terms drop of closer to 25 per cent — a larger fall than the painful correction that followed the financial crisis.

Blix · 12/10/2022 16:24

A sobering summary @vera99
A lot of people have made a lot of money in property in recent years, maybe property should be viewed as a long term thing, as a home to live in, rather than a way of making money.
Falling house prices a problem for those who bought recently and have no choice but to sell. Everyone else will stay put. Might become a better prospect for first time buyers.

vera99 · 12/10/2022 16:34

Blix · 12/10/2022 16:24

A sobering summary @vera99
A lot of people have made a lot of money in property in recent years, maybe property should be viewed as a long term thing, as a home to live in, rather than a way of making money.
Falling house prices a problem for those who bought recently and have no choice but to sell. Everyone else will stay put. Might become a better prospect for first time buyers.

Volumes will drop, quite a few EA will go bust and true price discovery might be at auctions with distressed sellers and cash buyers. If landlords though fear a more challenging political environment for them then they will probably leave the market and maybe begin to sell, they have been dominant at auctions certainly in the SE according to my builder mate. If you have the money lined up, find a place you would want to live in for a good amount of time can get a good discount on the perceived market value then anytime is as good as ever after all everybody needs a place to live.

DeadHouseBounce · 12/10/2022 17:55

Blix · 12/10/2022 15:29

@DeadHouseBounce slight derail here but you seem confident!
DS has a substantial deposit and was planning on buying soon. He's obviously cautious now. Do you think prices will plateau in 2023 or should he wait longer?

Wait longer, when the FED indicates that they will stop hiking rates, or even reverses a little, start paying attention to where house prices and mortgage rates are then, although the UK seems to be heading for its own personal crisis detached from other global economies, prices could crash even harder here IMO. The media will be full of Crash! headlines from now on but you will get more insight and detail following Bloomberg news and the HPC website than on here or say MSE where a hard core group of people who bought in the 80s cheerlead the young into ever bigger debt for the house they bought for 20k in 1981 under the guise of "advice". Until then sit back, grab popcorn and enjoy the show!

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