Level 3 RICS survey: rising damp diagnosed, £7,500 to fix?!

[jmo1981]

Hi,

I'm grateful for any advice, thanks for reading. I have just received the results of a level 3 RICS survey for an end terrace built around 1908. The only concern from that is 'evidence of rising damp to the majority of the ground floor walls' detected using 'a proti-meter'. When I viewed it I had no concerns about damp, the building seemed sound to me. No visible damp patches or damaged plaster. No smell of damp.

Since the only evidence the surveyor could offer came from this meter, and I've reason to doubt their accuracy based on the reading around I've done, it seems off to me. I live very close so have been round today as it was raining heavily, to check the guttering and roof. Everything looked fine. The walls even looked very dry. I've come to disbelieve this diagnosis of rising damp detectable from inside the house. However, I did see something that concerned me -- see pic, by far the worst one I took.

The house did have DPC injected around 2008 and I suspect the cement (? sorry if wrong, I'm no expert on this!) below the injection holes was applied at that time. It is now clearly flaking off and vegetation is growing there which is obviously not ideal.

My worry really is the soundness of those bricks under the cement. They look damp and mossy to me. What the surveyor told me feels wrong, and he never mentions this issue in the report.

My tentative conclusion is if something is wrong, it might be this and perhaps the cement can be removed with potentially the bricks replaced? I really want to buy this house but am afraid it's clouding my judgement.

@PigletJohn Hi, I was hoping you'd chip in! lol at guidedog, I do wonder why I paid so much for a survey when he couldn't notice things I can...

That's what I thought when I saw the house re the quality of the brickwork, head and shoulders above the average terrace in this area. Not been told about a cellar, and the survey says 'The ground floor is a mixture of solid concrete and suspended timber construction', so I hope the concrete referred to is only the kitchen extension and the main part of the house changed.

Please forgive my ignorance but haven't the silicone injections already been done eg the DPC holes? 😓

Yes, I think they have

But will not have repaired the defect.

It will not prevent people trying to sell you more.

@piglet Thanks, yes I've been looking at every house I pass for signs of this and often see what looks like repeated attempts. I won't do it. Does it look to you like those bricks beneath the cement might need replacing?

We had that crap about injected DPC, tanking etc, though not from our surveyor, from a dampproofing firm. I didn't believe it, called in Heritage House after we bought. We took HH advice and the house is now dry for minimal outlay. Cleared out blocked underfloor vents, took up plastic sheeting under the house, ventilated house properly (trickle vents in windows, dehumidifier in utility room where we dry washing when line can't be used outside, put in an effective cooker hood), ousted old gas fire, repaired leaking gutters, lots of small things. Also, stripped off wallpaper (this is still ongoing), scrubbed off wallpaper paste, painted plaster (which is lime) with claypaint (which breathes) sanded off the sealant some moron had put on the plaster in one room in a stupid attempt to tank, which would have been stupid even if it had worked. House dried out over the following winter to the point my eyes kept drying out, and wallpaper on lower walls not yet stripped went from being a bit soft, and easy to strip off, to so dry it had become a right * to get it off at all....
We have had the drains relaid, but the house was dry before we did that. We will lower the drive level to where it should be when we have it done, but that job comes last, after all building works- you may want to get that cement render mess at ground level off rather sooner. Your brick looks like Accrington brick, like ours. If so, it's as hard as nails, and really not very permeable to damp like London brick can be. If water needs to get out of the cavity, in ours it needs to get out through the pointing. So I need to repoint with lime, because some idiot in the past repointed with cement mortar, but as I said, the house is already dry, so just doing it because it is The Right Thing.
A relative had an injected DPC after a survey by a 'damp specialist' company. When he came to sell, a company working for the buyer said it needed an injected DPC as previous original DPC had failed. Turned out to be the same company who he'd paid to do it when he bought. The said relative Had a Word and that was the end of it.

Unlikely

More likely you have:

Very wet ground next to the wall, possibly due to some kind of leak

Cement plinth bridging the DPC

Ground level too high against the wall (possibly due to flower bed)

No airbricks seen yet

And the mortar between the bricks is probably lime and will have been washed out by excessive water. It can be cleaned out and repointed. I don't mind using cement mortar below ground. It is not exposed to the air so there is no "breathing" involved. The bricks look good quality. Some more pics of the whole wall and more bricks will help. Is the house near a canal or former railway line? Is it near Accrington?

I see now that @BlueMongoose also mentioned Accrington Reds. Not sure yet if you have them, but if you do, you are very lucky. You will not find a better brick in the world (except perhaps Blue Staffs. Opinion is divided). They do not need a DPC as they are impermeable. But a surveyor who was not vision impaired would have recognised them, especially if they are common in your area. Possibly it is some other Victorian brick.

Thanks, I think this is the way forward for me too

Attached pics of just a few of the airbricks in the walls,, it has quite a few, door pic taken on a sunny day, the others after the survey when it was absolutely chucking it down. Bricks (at least above the cement) looked very dry even when raining. All guttering working well. Located in Manchester, not too close to canal or former railway (I think).

I'll do as you suggest about the plinth and repointing, ta

@PigletJohn Looked at old maps, there was a railway terminus 1.5 miles from house in 1890s, closed in the 1960s

Most of the airbricks you show are modern ones, doubtless added in an attempt to reduce underfloor damp.

I expect there is a long-term source of water.

I would not be remotely surprised if it was a pipe leak. Drains are usually outside.

Close to Accrington, then.

I went past the NORI works once, name still on the factory chimney though it was shut down at the time.

Are they? Interesting. The road at the side of the house doesn't come with the property, and it's where the drains are according to the searches carried out. Sounds like something to monitor

I mean interesting about the airbricks!

And it does look like you have cavity walls with ventilation. Rare for a house so old but does look like a high quality build.

Wider photos of the wall to show the brick pattern will help.

The silicone injections were ignorant vandalism.

If you buy the house, look up Accrington NORI bricks.

Used in the foundations of the Empire State Building among others.

Replacements are costly.

Keep the door.

@BlueMongoose just reread your message, it's unbelievable isn't it. I wish I'd seen that convo! This (the survey) is my first brush with the 'experts' and I can;t say I'm impressed, though as other have said he needs to cover his backside. I get it but would rather have a realistic picture rather than worst case scenario, frightening the life out of me

Oh god yes, I love it. Timber bay window frames and patio doors at the back which need repairing, NOT replacing with PVC as the surveyor recommended 😐

Looks like cavity wall, doesn't it, because you can't see brick ends?

I don't know what a "damp meter" would indicate on those bricks. I think not useful.

If the inside walls are damp (they will be a cheaper brick) the pattern will show if it is condensation or, as I suspect, soaking up from the base, especially on a concrete floor when, as is not unusual, there is a leaking pipe buried in it.

1908 water pipes are entitled to leak.

If you are on a hill it might be groundwater, stream, or drainage. Or I might just be wrong.

That pic seems distorted through being oblique, but you are looking for the right thing.

I would complain to RICS, I don’t know any surveyors who would diagnose ‘rising damp’

thinking about it...

This seems manageable and not a reason to not buy it, cheers

They stopped making the Accrington Bricks once or twice in recent years I gather, but you can get them again. Not cheap, but if you're only patching a few in her and there and not building a house, it doesn't make a huge lot of difference. They do them in two sizes, one the modern size, one nearly but not quite *😕the old bigger size.
They are wonderful bricks, I agree pigletjohn, but they are as tough as heck to cut or drill into.😉And darn heavy to handle for an amateur when you lay the things. We found some under the floor from the original 1920s build when we cleared it out under there, with NORI moulded into them.

*makes repairing brickwork annoying but not impossible