Weird building quote for extension/loft conversion (+weird builder!)

[molliert85]

So, DH and I have been saving for an extension and loft conversion for ages. Finally got to the point of quotes. A family friend, very highly recommended, came and took a look at the house and garden. Upon arrival the builder, who I've never met before, was very friendly and polite, but said odd things like "well, building regulations are for wussies" and didn't really seem to look properly at the house or loft. So far...so...weird.

After a lot of to-ing and fro-ing about how the architect had "got the drawings wrong" (builder's words, not mine), we got the estimate through from the builder. We've never had one for a large job like this, so we're not quite sure what to expect, but it is basically a few lines saying "Price is X." Surely this cannot be normal?

Does anyone have an estimate from a respectable builder, preferably one who has completed an extension/ loft conversion in London, that they wouldn't mind sharing (obviously with personal stuff redacted) with me?

DH is threatening to book the builder. I know I'm not crazy here to think something is wrong, but because I can't show him how an estimate should look, or what the price should be, he's saying we should "just go with it."

I keep telling DH it's so important we get this right, especially as it's not small money. Any advice would be appreciated.

Thank you so much everyone. I am so grateful. I am calling the council now.

Don't do this. You need a proper schedule of works and an interim payment schedule. You also need somebody who is very clear on building regs. My loft conversion had several building control visits and quite right too.

I'd ask for local recommendations (community FB pages are good for this) or look to see if anybody nearby has had similar and go and speak to them. The comment about building regs would make me run a mile. Also how much has he quoted for this work if you don't mind sharing?

To add, any contractor must be insured (public liability) and I'd ask to see a certificate. There should also be a health and safety plan.

Is your husband on commission?

We have an outstanding PM and relationship with a builder lasting years. We still get a line by line itemisation of what to expect and all costs. Things still go wrong and get forgotten - in a recent tranche of work we both forgot one item.

What terrifies me with your builder is that something will be wrong in the regs or the pipes or otherwise hard to detect. And it will cost you thousands and thousands to put right.

Our quote for works last year was 4 pages long. Had amounts for every step of the process. Came in bang on budget. Any costs of materials that had been underestimated by our builder were swallowed by him.

The comment about building regs would put me right off never mind the rest of it. I read that line to dh and asked if he would hire that builder and it was a resounding no.
Wait a few weeks for the other quotes. You'll only end up spending more with this builder, just to put things right

The building regs comment would put me off. I've seen quite a few houses for sale as 3 bed plus "loft space". Without building regs it's not a bedroom. Cant be sold as a 4 bedroom, can't be mortgaged as a 4 bedroom and can't be insured as a 4 bedroom. That's a lot of value to miss out on.

I wouldn't be as wary of the "quote". Several smaller building companies around here give a ballpark figure and then will do a detailed quote when asked. Too many people expect building to come in at half the price so it's a non-starter from the beginning. Once clients confirm they're interested but need more detail and a schedule of payment, that's when they'll invest the hours in putting together a proposal.

Dont do it. You need an itemized quote and your gut is clearly telling you not to.
I know someone who very recently had a build at home. Were quoted 80k, builders kept asking for more saying 'oh that's not included'. Ended up 115k in the end. Build 8 months over and I the end had to be thrown if site due to them cutting corners on stuff to save money. Build is still not complete and will cost another 20k min just to put rigt what the builders messed up. Then there will be costs to finish the build on top.

I can't find our original quote, but this is a template for a side extension I found which is pretty much how our loft one looked. A decent builder will itemise all the major stuff.

The building regs thing would put me totally off this builder for a start!

I wonder if it's an outline figure to check whether it's the sort of sum you're looking at/can afford before detailed work takes place? We're awaiting building work and had the builder on site to do an initial quote which gave us a vague idea of costs. When we agreed to take it forward he then came back with plumber and electrician to work out the details - this then resulted in a quote that ran to six pages including all sorts of detail like a portaloo on the drive, work in each room broken down and an outline amount for things like bathroom sanitaryware and tiles that will be confirmed once we have decided on those.

In our example it was five weeks between first visit and outline quote, then about another month to detailed quote and we're finalising specs now.

I would not let this builder through my front door, especially after his remarks regarding building regs. When I had my extension done I received a proper quote setting out all the works to be carried out which he did and all building regs were strictly adhered to. Get some proper quotes and show these replies to your husband he might then see sense.

OP, respectfully, your husband sounds like an idiot ;)

Yes of course the quote should be detailed and itemised with a price for each item.

It also needs to express where there is potential for extra charges - as a PP said, the classic is for foundations - "if to depth of 1.5 then £X, additional 0.5m depth as needed at £X".

Getting this should reassure you that you're dealing with a professional who has actually costed the job, not made the price up on the back of a beer mat.

But arguably the most important thing, above the quote, is the payment schedule and T&Cs - which should specify what % is paid in advance (if any), what % is due on completion of which elements, and what % is held back until final snagging is completed.

Without agreeing this in advance you are setting yourself up for a world of pain...

Why is your H so keen on this guy? There are red flags all over.

You don't even know what you are getting for that 'quote'

Don't ever employ anyone who says anything remotely like 'building regs are for wusses'.
Especially if you ever want to sell the house in the future. Make 100% sure you involve Building Control and Planning if there is the slightest reason to think that may be necessary, whoever does the work, too.

We just had a re-roof, and involved Building Control, they've been twice already, and will be coming again this week to check some new timberwork. I expect they'll be back again to check the insulation when that's done.The inspector discussed things like timber dimensions with the roofer, we'd have had no idea what was needed. I think it's more than worth the money they charge to be sure it all gets done right (and signed off if ever we need to sell). I can't imagine anyone saying that the regs are 'for wusses'. I know that workers sometimes grit their teeth if an inspector wants extra bits of things done, and I do understand thatis a nuisance for them. In fact, I;m expecting the inspector on this job to want some extra work done- a pain, but if it is better tht it's done, then so be it. I had problems myself when helping a mate with some pointing. That was at a time when you got LA grants for some renovation works. The LA was short of cash (1980s) and kept stalling the grant towards a large job that was already completed by asking for a few more square feet of the front wall to be pointed every time they turned up. 😆But we got there in the end.

If nothing is itemised, how do you know what you are paying for?

Than you so much-I had no idea this was the case. Gosh all of your replies are making me SO glad I cam eon here to ask.

That is so kind-thank you. Yes, I can se now that our "quote" looks nothing like this.

No, he was being totally serious-the "quote" was a line in an email with a contract attached.

Is the builder's name Dave, perchance?

We've had a third more detailed quote back today from our builder. This one finalises the details to start work and runs to 8 pages of spreadsheet (and we're not building an extension!).

He's also sent through details of their insurance cover for the building work.