Buying a house with evidence of movement- HELP!

[SELonOwner]

Hi there

New to the site but long time lurker (!) and I noticed a few people have posted about subsidence issues when buying/selling a property and had some really useful responses back so I'm wondering if anyone able to offer any insight on mine and my partners current situation!

We have had an offer accepted on a terraced house in an area of SE London and a mortgage and valuation approved but have some concerns about movement to a bay window in the house (it's double fronted and one side is fine)

There are some internal and external cracks around the front bay which is believed to be as a result of a tree growing outside the property. Apparently it's got worse since the dry summer. Also the building has been pointed (not recently) with concrete which has apparently made the situation worse. We don't know for sure but the repointing was most likely done because of movement. No previous claims for subsidence came up in searches on the house.

Today we had a structural inspection from a surveyor who said the property is by no means falling down and explained it was entirely normal for a property of this age, he sees it all the time in the area and it can be easily remedied.
He wouldn't suggest underpinning the bay at this stage but we're we to go ahead with the sale to firstly remove the tree and remedy the cracks and see if it settles.

He also said by the look of next door they could have done something similar as they have repointed recently and have thicker pointing around the bay windows.

Obviously the structure is the first concern. But our second concern is buildings insurance. It was previously a HMO so the current insurance cannot be transferred and as no work has been done to remedy the current movement we may struggle to get insurance covering subsidence/have fewer insurance options. Only had one conversation with a broker so far and they said the tree would need to be removed and cracks covered in order to give us a quote.

Third concern(!) is resale on the property...

If we bought, moved in and fixed the cracks, removed the tree and paid for the work without claiming on any insurance and the issue was resolved it shouldn't affect the insurance of anyone buying the property in the future. Even if we were to suck up the cost of underpinning the bay ourselves I have been told as long as the correct paperwork is in order it shouldnt affect the resale value too much in that area and can be reassurance to potential buyers if anything.

Were we to go ahead we wouldn't be planning to move for a long time (15 years +) by which point hopefully it would be resolved and insuring somewhere with historical movement seems like less of a headache.

Just for background- It's situated on a street which we wouldn't normally be able to afford but due to the house needing everything doing to it we were able to negotiate a good price and have friends/family in the trades to help with the work. This is why we haven't so far been put off and walked away.

The current owner inherited the property so knows very little about the its history, is v young (21 ) and doesn't want the hassle of doing any of the work himself.

Anyway, sorry so long but really hoping someone has some advice! We realise it would be a risky purchase so just keen to hear if anyone has experienced anything similar before we work out whether to go forward.

Thanks in advance!

If the surveyor is not worried, that's a good start. I have never seen a house that has not moved at all over time. I can't see the cracks, but instead of just covering them up with cementortar, you can get 'steel stitches' if there are horizontal cracks in the masonry, which reinforce the structure, before replastering. Is your house a period house built original inime and lath? If so, don't use cement mortar/render as it will crack from minor movement. Use lime mortar/render instead. But minor cracks are likely to incur just when the lime dries, as it's never perfect conditions. Just a bit of poly filler then before any inspection. Find out though whether there is a tree preservation order on the tree, or how the local planning authority feels about the tree - in a conservation are and in the curtilage of a listed property you will need planning permission to cut down a tree. Also it can be expensive removing the roots, depends how deep under the house/foundations. If the tree is already mature, you might want to leave it, as the removal could cause more damage, as if you remove the roots, you create a hole underneath the house.

I am not a surveyor, just having been through several renovations, but as a general rule, my builders always told me that vertical cracks are less worrying than horizontal and so yours probably won't need stitching, but that's not a great expense anyway. It's hard to see from the picture, but given that your house looks early 1900s (?) repointing in lime would probably be much better than cement as lime was probably the original material. Do you have a quote from a builder who is experienced in using lime? The downside of lime is that while it's more flexible and 'breathes' (I.e. dries out again after getting wet and does not trap water, so prevents damp problems), it takes much longer and fewer builders do it nowadays, so can be significantly more expensive, especially with regard to rendering/plastering. There are halfway options, like lime-cement mixes, which set quicker and harder, but you loose some flexibility/breathability, so speak to an experienced builder to see what they prefer. Maybe your surveyor can give you a 'schedule of works' and suggest some builders that you can ask to quote for the works? That would give you an idea of whether it's worth proceeding with the buying. But do ask your local planning about the tree, they can be very difficult about trees! Or give it a push at the next storm😀Never lie to an insurance. If you complete knowing about such a problem, the insurance might exclude a cover for subsidence until it's remedied, but they will still insure you for all the 'normal' issues like fire, water escape from pipes etc. If you lie, they have the right to refuse any claim, even if it is totally unrelated. If your current broker is not helpful, try one that specialises in period properties. I found Stanhope insurance brokers very helpful. It would also be totally reasonable to ask for the money it will cost to remedy the problem off the asking price, (or a significant chunk of it) so if you can get a couple of quotes and then go back to the agent/vendors before completing.

Old houses move, I’ve lived in them all my life. It’s entirely normal. Those are not big cracks.

Thank you all so much for your help!

my sister has cracks appeared structural engineer says it is due to very dry weather and tree outside and nothing to worry about at this stage just get tree removed and get them fixed and hopefully should then be ok if not then go through insurance and get house underpinned
We have minor cracks in comparison appeared in our conservatory but put it down to very dry summer

We discovered just prior to exchange that our current house had had issues with its front bay maybe 5 yrs previously.

Previous owners had made an insurance claim and had had an engineer round who suggested it was due to a tree in neighbouring front garden. As far as we can tell the sellers then got some repair work done inside the bay but didn’t go as far as underpinning - sounds a bit like yours, concrete bodgery!

Anyway we decided to go ahead and managed to get the neighbours to remove the tree. No further issues since (this was 12 yrs ago now).

We did have to take on the previous owners’ insurance, because there had been a subsidence related claim, until the claim was a certain number of years in the past (can’t remember how many).

Whether you can get insurance easily depends on the insurers’ exact questions I think. If a prospective insurer asks “have there been subsidence related works or claims” then you’re fine as you can truthfully say no. If they ask “any evidence of subsidence” you’re on trickier ground. If you say yes they may not be interested or at the very least will want to get their own surveyor round.

I would think twice about removing a tree that’s on clay soil. Trees drink a lot of water. That water is then retained in the soil and can lead to heave. Cutting the tree back might be better. Or, as DH often suggests, get foundations for the bay window. DH is a structural engineer and says bay windows often have very shallow foundations. That means they are very open to moving when the ground shrinks.

Not sure why I cannot see any pictures but if you need to insure it via new insurance, you won’t get it and then be able to claim. You need to repair it from your own money. As a HMO, it doesn’t mean it wasn’t insured. A claim could be made by the owner and they might need to for a sale to go through.