Shared access and neighbours bins

[sqexpectantmum]

Hello - we are working through the conveyancing process for the purchase of a lovely 4 bed end of Terrace in SW London. Side access was a key consideration as I transport my 2 kids around on a cargo bike. My solicitor has looked at the deeds/ plans and the side access is right of way for our property and 7 others. 3 properties next to ours and 4 on the other side of the path.

When we viewed the property and have subsequently returned to look at we can see there are a number of neighbours who store their wheelie bins on the pathway. Our house stores it there (currently tenanted), the neighbour on the other side of the pathway and a neighbour further up.

2 concerns:

1. Easy access for my bike whilst carrying 2 small kids. The path is probably just about wide enough to take the bike and wheelie bins but it will be tight and just not a nice daily experience to pass/ rub against bins.
2. That many bins lined up next to our property does not look good. Removing ours will reduce the number but there are still 2 other houses using it which leaves 4 bins.

Question:

• Can you store items, in this case Wheelie Bins, on a shared access/ right of way passage? If you cannot what law can you cite?
• If you cannot, how do you recommend I have this conversation with my new neighbours. I am conscious I want to start off on the right foot as it is a lovely street with residents living there a long time.

Thank you for taking the time to read and advise.

What is the exact wording for the passage? Rights of way are all about the wording however you may come up against issues if a neighbour has lived there for years and feels entitled to keep putting their bins where they have always put them even if it goes against the deeds. Just because somebody is in the wrong doesn't mean they will acquiesce.

For me it is a deal breaker, you only need some arsehole neighbour who wants to make your life difficult to make your life difficult especially with something like an access.

If you want to see how bad it can get Garden Law website and their forum on all things right of way, boundaries, fences etc and see where it can lead. And yes, been there, got the t shirt. Never assume that people are the same as you. Sometimes they are unhinged.

We had this! In the beginning it was just us and our neighbours using our shared drive (next to our house) then our neighbour agreed to let the other two houses in our row do the same. The alley way ran past our house and all our bedrooms were on that wall, so every Tuesday night there would be wheelie bins rumbling past and every Wednesday they would rumble back again. As always, CF's take the piss and before long we had one neighbours general waste, recycling, garden waste and bottle box in our drive. One particular neighbour (same one) would forget to put their bin out most weeks and would wake the whole house up at 6am when they left for work and noticed everyone else's bin was out. Bins were also stored quite near our kitchen so in the height of summer we had flies coming in. So, there's a few things to consider!
We moved in April and I'm still so happy on bin day that I don't have to deal with it. Things like that week after week can leave you seething.

Hi redpickle - did you ever talk to the neighbours? Did you move for this reason?

The street we are moving to is so lovely and the residents similarly. Where the bins are stored is not next to walls of our property. They are on the perimeter of the front garden so in terms of noise/ flies etc... it wont be the same situation as unfortunately what you had to go through.

I have since gone back and I can see 3 houses put there bins there - the house we are buying, the house on the other side of the shared pathway and an old lady some doors up who has created a wonderful front garden of flowers leaving little/ no room for bins LOL.

When I move in we will move ours directly to our front garden. I'll then drop round to neighbours with hello's and wine. Then maybe a few weeks later ask that the bins are removed so I can transport my children more easily on the shared path.

It is currently laid to grass and very untidy. My husband is a builder so we will make it lovely and improve the overall look. We will offer to help the old lady with her bins every week.

Fingers crossed!

Honestly, this sounds like a problem waiting to happen! Don't wait til you move in (or exchange contracts)) before you sort it. Get your solicitor to raise it with the seller and ask them to speak to the neighbours and acknowledge in writing that they won't store the bins there.

The seller won't want to do this and the neighbours might still do it but if you can't get any acknowledgment now, you going round as a newbie is a recipe for disaster of it's a key point for you.

I don't think this will be as straightforward as you hope.

All the wine, flowers and smiles in the world wouldn't make me store a bin in my front or back garden if there was somewhere more out of the way to do so.

[I'm assuming there isn't anywhere else out of the way?]

Which leaves you the legal route. Your solicitor will advise if it is stated explicitly whether or not items may be stored in the shared passage. Either way, you're bound to irritate your new neighbours. Why should be suddenly be inconvenienced to make things more convenient for you?

You might get lucky and they might see you struggling and help you out, but I would proceed with caution.

Sounds like a plan BUT only proceed if you are OK if nothing changes.

This would seriously put me off the house. Get the legal situation clarified and ask the neighbours to agree in writing to not store bins there before you sign, or you will just have to lump it.

I'm sorry OP but this is a headache in the making.

Even if your solicitor gets an assurance from your neighbours that they won't store bins there, how are you going to enforce it?
It's private property, so if you did get some bloody-minded arsehole uncooperative person blocking the passage the police won't intervene.

For this reason I rejected all properties with a share drive or passage/easement/liability for un-adopted road repairs etc when I last moved house.

This is not a showstopper for us if neighbours are challenging and won't move their bins. Whilst irritating...the benefits outweigh this one con. The house is great at the right price, side access, great street, close to primary school etc....

We live in London so if you want side access to your garden your options are detached (waaaay too expensive), semi (also very expensive) or end of terrace which typically has shared access with at least one or more neighbour. Compromise is the name of the game in SW London/ Zone 3.

The path is for 'right of way' access. There is no reference to storage of personal property. Whilst the deed doesn't explicitly say storing personal belonging this is of course inferred. The wheelie bins in their current position will make it more challenging for me to access to pathway and use it - albeit not impossible.

We have been advised by many locals (from the primary school on live on these streets) that the residents are lovely, have WhatsApp groups etc..) so I'm hopeful we can reach a compromise at least.

That sounds great OP, and given your update and to answer your original questions, I would honestly wait quite a long time before asking them. Settle in, get to know them, show you are a nice person and want to be part of the community, before you ask for the favour.

If you don't, you just risk coming across as a demanding new neighbour upsetting the peaceful status quo.

When the time comes, I wouldn't take any gifts which is presumptuous. Have an open chat about how you are struggling and see what happens. If they move them, then it would be appropriate to thank them.

Right of way means just that, the right to pass through. You are not allowed to store anything in a shared area.
That said, you'd probably have a fight on your hands if they've been doing this for years unimpeded and it could get quite messy...

This would put me off. I have seen a similar situation in my own road and the neighbour who had the shared access pathway gated it off. She shouldn't have done that. It ended up with solicitors and one neighbour moving because of it. It caused a nightmare.

Could we have a diagram, please?

Can you build a bike store further down the passage so you wouldn’ t have to take you’re bike past the bins? But obviously leave enough space for them too

Why? What information is missing that you would get from a diagram? It's a really clear, and quite common set up. Row of houses with side access.

The mumsnet nonsense of, "diagram please," is getting ridiculous.

It very much depends on how long they (and previous occupants) have been storing their bins there. If 20+ years they could have an prescriptive easement to do so.

What would you do if they refuse your request?

You need this if you've got a front garden.

bikebox.london/

Expensive though.

I'd live with it. As said above it's not a deal breaker. Ideally I'd like the right of way unobstructed. But life is all about compromise and this is one we can make.

In reply to your question, yes we did speak to them and they moved them for a while but they started creeping back in. Same with not wheeling them past when everyone was in bed, stops for a while but started again before long. They all seemed 'lovely' and indeed were on many occasions but that doesn't mean it translated to being considerate with their bins. It wasn't the main reason we moved but it certainly made the top 5 reasons we'd had enough. If it's something that impacts you on a regular basis (weekly, daily, a few times a day) it will really start to build resentment. However, you seem pretty set on the property in spite of everyone's warnings so good luck with it.

Thing is, even if the contract is clear that it is access only, you will probably piss people off by being the new person objecting. It could stir up bad will straight away. Also, how long are you planning on staying there? If it is putting you off, it will put other future interested people too.

Hi, I’m buying a terrace house with shared access through the gardens, the only other access is through the house.

both next door neighbour’s gates are right next to the house.

I want to put a single story extension on the back, small enough that I don’t need planning permission. But I don’t know where I stand legally with keeping the access.

one neighbour has an established garden so I’d leave a walkway to the side for access.

but the other neighbour hasn’t done anything with his garden, there’s actually 3 fence panels missing and his garden is a bit overgrown.

I don’t want to leave a gap on both sides as the extension would be too small.

If he agreed would I legally be able to build up to our joining fence, then put a gate at the end of my extension. I’ll draw a diagram to better explain. Do I legally need to leave access or can I close the gate off completely?

I’ve also added a picture of the garden showing where the gates are currently.

thanks

@KMA83 You will be better off starting new thread with your question.