Please help me resolve my drain issue

[Thewestwoods]

Can anyone please advise on who I need to contact to find a solution to my drain problem.

I have a sweet little house originally built 150 years ago, but fully renovated by a local builder 6 years ago.

The house fronts onto a village street which, because the local pumping station can’t cope with heavy downpours, suffers groundwater flooding when the weather is extreme.

That in itself is not an issue, the water doesn’t come high enough to damage the house.

However, when the main street sewer in inundated, the water flows back from it into a drain run which flows behind my house (i.e. it flows in the wrong direction). That drain run serves my neighbour and I, so is owned by the local water authority.

My house is the lower house so the water fill the 4ft deep inspection chamber outside my back door. Again not really an issue as it has never yet overflowed.

But and it is a big but, the drains from my house flow into the base of that inspection chamber and when there is a weight of water in there, my drains, toilets etc are not able to empty.

More worrying, the flow of water back from the sewer up into that drain forces gas up through my whole drainage system. I get sewer gas forced through the Ubends, up through the bath plug holes, my shower traps etc.

I have reported this to my local water authority on numerous occasions and they have even visited, sucked their teeth and said it is not their problem. But they have also told me that because it is a joint drain they own it and I am not allowed to do anything to it. I have asked to fit non return valves at the point where the drain flows into the main sewer, the answer is no. I have asked to fit them at the point where my house drains join their drain. They say not possible.

I have reached a stage where I need solid advise in the form of a specialist, who can look at the system, understand the issue and suggest a solution. I almost don’t care anymore who pays for it, I just want it solved so I can live here without constant worry about rain storms.

Can anyone advise who I should approach? I have had Dyno Rod and a local drain specialist look at it, but neither could suggest a solution. The local water authority refuse to accept it is their issue.

Any suggestions would be really welcome.

@Pigletjohn would you be able to suggest who I should approach to obtain a Report on the cause of the issue and some suggestions as to how to resolve it?

No help at all, but you have my fullest sympathy. We've had three different drain 'specialists' look at our drains, and they seem to be flummoxed every time.

For people with extensions - laminate the f out of those under floor drain plans - someone will thank you for it in 50 years' time.

Have you spoken to your council?Who ever you pay council tax too? They deal with drain issues and agree who pays for what etc?

@PigletJohn is there any advice you can give, please.

I am hoping the combined wisdom of MN might point me in the right direction.

You can install flood resilience measures to manage the risk of flooding. In this case a non-return valve (flap) can be installed in the sewer chamber (or pipe itself) this stops water flowing the “wrong” way when levels are elevated in the receiving bit of the network.

As this is a shared sewer, your water company are responsible for maintaining it (much though they may wriggle), not sure what the legality would be if you do improvement works off your own back.

Some great information on flood resilience here:

nationalfloodforum.org.uk/about-flooding/reducing-your-risk/protecting-your-property/

And here

marydhonau.com

Thank you @Geekygeek @BustPipes @Threelittlelambs for you advice. The links on your post @Geekygeek are very useful

What I really need to understand is who I can call upon to survey the situation and write a report to take to the local water authority.

I am 99% sure it is their responsibility, but don’t know how to get them to take it seriously.

I don’t know who you could call, but if I were you, I think I would ask someone like a building architect to recommend someone, simply because they must have to deal with complicated pluming when doing extensions etc. They may know someone with the skill set you need to survey/solve this issue - which can’t be unique.
Alternatively, what about contacting a flood expert? Suggesting as your problem
is flood related and not a normal drain problem (for which dyno rod would be ideal).
You have my sympathy- we may soon be in a similar situation, only involving most of our street.

I don't know who to contact

But the venting of gas into your house should be easy.

When it was built I bet it had a cast iron soil pipe running up the outside wall next to the bathroom, terminating above window height, with the WC connecting straight into it, and open at the top. Since the top is open to the atmosphere any gases can freely escape outside the house, and the internal drains cannot become pressurised

People renovating bathrooms like to cut these off and sell them for scrap, and can't be bothered to replace in modern plastic. In many cases they cap off the top of the soil pipe inside the house with a terrible thing called a Durgo, which is supposed to allow air to enter the pipe, but not escape it (until they go wrong). Many bathroom fitters like to wall them up so you can't see where the smell is coming from and have go smash through tiles and plasterboard to get at them.

You can have an open-topped pipe fitted, venting outside. In modern houses it often goes through the roof, needing a competent roofer to avoid leaks.

This is an easy plumbing job, and is inside your house so nothing go do with the water company.

Agree with the open vent pipe being the thing you need. All drain runs need one, and if your drains commonly surcharge (fill to the top of the pipe) it would be prudent to have them on all branches.

Thank you @PigletJohn & @johnd2

You are right, all my plumbing is boxed in and I suspect I will need the wall(s) knocked through and all the tiling destroyed to get at everything.

I did have a builder check my loft for a Durgo when the problem first arose but no evidence. I also asked the original builder if there was a vent pipe and he told me it wasn’t necessary as there was one in my neighbours house as he was above me on the drain run.

His attitude was ‘not my problem’ and I got no further. He said that he was no longer in contact with the Sub Contractor who fitted my drains and had no drainage plans for my house.

Could you advise who I should engage with to resolve this problem and fit a vent pipe? Is it a Plumber, a drain specialist or a Builder that I need? Where about in the drain run should a vent pipe be fitted? I have two bathrooms at opposite ends of the house. Both are affected by air ingress when we have a bad storm.

Ok I’m going to say something here you are not going to like but I’m a civil engineer and then only fix to this requires you pressurising your water company to create more capacity in the system. The system is over capacity and this is not something you can fix at your end. Sorry.

With regards to the sewer gas there are two things used in houses to address this, trap under sinks and on toilets and vent pipes at the end of the sewer line. Certainly you can check that both of these are operating effectively in your house but it is quite possible that they won’t work effectively in the situation you are describing because that back flow along those pipes is going to pressurise that gas coming back up along the pipes in storm conditions. Drainage systems are not designed for the type of back flow you are experiencing.

I should add that each of the bathrooms drains to a separate part of the drain run externally. One (the worst affected) to an inspection chamber in my neighbours garden and one (still affected but not as badly) to the inspection chamber in my garden.

Ouch @BudgetBlast that is scary input.

The Water company already know the system is over capacity, but deny it vehemently.

@BudgetBlast but I should add, much appreciated.

That information will undoubtedly support me in trying to find a solution.

I suspect it is on an upgrade list somewhere if that is the case. Keep pushing it with them and ideally get others in your neighbourhood to do the same. Make it a known issue locally. I hope it gets sorted for you soon. It is a relatively common issue as services come towards needing to be upgraded but from what you have written it sounds like there is still a good bit of capacity in the pipes at your end before any flood risk occurs to your property which is the most important thing from your perspective but obviously from what you are saying it sounds like there is not enough capacity in the system to drain away the wastewater - which is a separate issue, obviously it is unpleasant though.

A plumber can add vent pipes. Ask around for a wrinkly one with horny hands.

My local privatised water company, owned by foreign investors and deeply in debt to the tune of the vast dividends they have taken, pays hundreds of £millions in fines for multiple deliberate violations, because it is cheaper than working to a proper standard.

@Thewestwoods It reads as if you need a plumber a civil engineer and the help of your local MP.

Thank you all,

i wish I knew a wrinkly, horny handed Plumber @PigletJohn but plumbers are like hens teeth round here. Mine doesn't ‘do drains’

i have spoken to the original Builder again today, who insists it is a Water Company issue and has put that in writing. I have also called Building Control. They oversaw the conversion and are going to visit to look at the issue. Then I reported it to the Water Company again, to ensure it is on record. They are coming out next week.

If I can just get agreement on the potential solution, maybe I can start to find someone to resolve it.

Some plumbers are weedy little fellows with petal soft hands. He's afraid of spades.

Ground workers do drains, and know how to dig.

Are there any relevant sections of the “Water Industry Act” 1991 that you could point out to the water company to remind them of their statutory duties?