Unsure to renegotiate in a sellers market

[BerryTiredMama]

We’ve been trying to move for about a year now to upsize and we finally had an offer accepted on a lovely house. There were 3 other offers to compete with, the area we are buying in is highly competitive with most houses having multiple bids (usually more than 5).

We got this house at 15k under asking but were the highest bid. We thought it was well maintained, and it partly has been, however the survey has come back with around 30k worth of work to be done - the likes of ?asbestos, possible collapsed drain, check subfloors. Theres also no paperwork for chimney removal, side ext etc because this work was done in the 80s! We will be asking for indemnity for these things.

We could just about cover the 30k but i am wondering if its worth renegotiating for the seller to meet us in the middle or just leave it due to the initial 15k reduction (although it was overpriced) and also the fact its still a sellers market in this area. The house is £750+ london suburb so 15k off is not a huge chunk.

if you were the vendor would you tell me to get lost or would you be open renegotiate?

On mty experience Indemnity policy s are rarely lender requirements

I am going to go against the grain and say that I would not take on something that needs 30k of works if I initially thought I was bidding on something that would need very little updating.

It just sounds like the property was really over-priced to start with.

Personally I would lower my offer based on the survey findings and be prepared to walk away if that was not accepted.

The sellers have to realise that after all the next buyer will almost certainly do a survey and it will highlight the same issues. So there is no guarantee that they won't find themselves in the same spot over and over again with buyers.

The replies so far seem to be from the point of view of getting as much money as possible for the people selling the house but I think they are rather unrealistic too. Especially as the market now is looking very different than a couple of months ago.

Do you have to buy now? I was looking to move at the start of the year and am constantly being bombarded by emails and texts from agents reducing properties

We are sitting tight.

Are they worded as essential works to be done immediately and costed as such? We have £6k worth of these from our building survey - it is mainly to make the chimney stack safe.

We also then have a long list of 'check further' type stuff which isn't costed. This includes a structural wall that has no support underneath it. We're getting this checked properly and supported before we move in.

@Redqueenheart yes it was overpriced as i said our initial offer was the highest and that was 15k under. This is the lines i was thinking along but my main issue is the fact its a sellers market puts the ball in their court, as we can see from the replies of other sellers, as they had a good few other offers.

@Mosso yes we have to move now, i really wish we didn’t but if we dont now the mortgage situation will get worse and we have to upsize - 4 in a 2 bed atm. Im very nervous about the energy bills etc but we are high earners so will hopefully cover this.

@RidingMyBike yes all listed as urgent work, survey had traffic light system and 50% was red! A lot of it is nitty gritty things which have added up - guttering, single skin garden wall blah blah.

The chimney stack we will sort out as we will be in with relatives during the essential works (rewire/plaster etc). That hasnt been accounted for on the survey so will be another additional cost🙄🙄 Are you getting the chimney and wall made secure before purchase or after purchase and before move in??

Also bugs me we have shelled out for a level 3 survey for the survey to say you need more specialist surveys! Money money money.

So we didn't pay for any additional surveys but anticipated having to do work before moving in. Ours is a 1940s semi with several weeks extensions not entirely compliant with building regs. The survey also recommended things like getting the electrics checked but we thought it was obvious we'd need to rewire - there's at least two fuse boxes of different ages, wires hanging down in places etc.

We completed two months ago and are about to get detailed quote in from structural engineer, builder, plumber and electrician (it has been quite interesting getting them all on site at the same time!). We're in rented ATM (we were a work relocation so sold our house 200 miles away last year).

I turned the survey into a priority list on a spreadsheet. So we are definitely doing before moving in:
Structural work to chimney, supporting walls.
Total rewire
Staircase to loft conversion made safer (it's apparently legal so wasn't highlighted as an essential on the survey but it's not great).
Replace boiler - hopefully with a heat pump if we can afford it.
Replace double glazing that has 'blown'.
New kitchen - highlighted in survey as would need replacing sometime and far easier to do whilst we're not there.
Replacement bathroom.
We'll also need to decorate throughout as it's fairly grim ATM and all that work will make it worse.
And new carpets/floors as current ones are revolting and will only get worse.

Having asbestos on the houses still, in this day and age, just blows my mind.

I’d go in with lower offer and be prepared to walk a way. You probably will be waiting for ages to even find contractors to do all these works.

Asbestos is common in houses of a certain age. If it's just sat there and not flaking etc then it's not going to do any harm, although obviously you can't drill into it!

I'm not convinced it is still a sellers market. Maybe not a buyers market yet but it's shifted to a more neutral position and likely to become a buyers market over the next few months.
Therefore, I think in your position I would be asking for a reduction of a few thousand. House prices are likely to drop in the next 12 months given the very bleak economic outlook and I would want to protect from overpaying as much as possible. I don't think sellers will be so confident at going back to the market as they may have been a couple of months ago.

@RidingMyBike im glad someone is in agreement that if you haven’t expected to do works you can renegotiate. Thats a detailed list and ours is now looking quite similar but two months to get a quote?!
We wanted to do a kitchen update and had around 50k savings to do that and keep aside for the forthcoming years but thats now out of the window and we will live with the old kitchen for now. We’ve decided not to pay for any further surveys and just go ahead with the purchase, similar to you. It has been extremely difficult to get an offer accepted in the first place and we are genuinely desperate to move. I wish we weren’t as i would renegotiate.
Our list is
chimney stack support
rewire
plaster over the asbestos 😅as you say if you dont disturb it will be fine!
check drains +works
Say a little prayer that the subfloors aren't rotten 😂
The rest will have to wait

@Wanderergirl Im of the same opinion, people keep on about old houses having these issues but someone is occupying these old houses and they should be maintained and be made safe to live in before being sold on!

@Hopealong i dont think its the case in the area we are buying in sadly, the demand is far too high and the amount of chain free buyers is insane (a lot of generational wealth) i do think some markets are slowing and certain styles of houses but large semis are still up there!!

The trades are REALLY booked up at the moment. We found a bigger building company with availability to do work within a few months and got them in to quote the day after completion. Their usual turnaround time for quote etc is 3 weeks, then someone got Covid so it turned into much longer as their backlog grew! Then people were on leave - we are having detailed quote visit this week but that got pushed back from last week as the structural engineer's son was getting GCSE results!

Other builders are totally booked up and not able to take on more work until well in to next year. We approached a couple of kitchen and bathroom companies but they were running on a 9 month wait.

It's a big contrast with last time we bought a house that needs work - we got quotes, comparison and the detail sorted within 6 weeks, 6 weeks of work, then we moved in!

What sort of person are you buying from? Both times we've bought from elderly widowers in their 80s or 90s and we've found house was well-maintained until the person got into their 60s (approx), then they seem to have given up and just let things deteriorate. Presumably it all got too overwhelming. Or the wife was the one who organised this stuff?

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for a reduction but you would have to prove that there is asbestos and drain damage. I would do the asbestos and drainage surveys first since they need to be done anyway so you understand the extent of both issues. The surveys will quote you for remediation work and then you will be able to start negotiations. I would be as fair as possible and offer to go halves on the cost rather than ask for the full amount.

The only upper hand you have if you do this is that once the sellers are notified that asbestos has been confirmed in the property they must disclose it to any other potential buyers. They will also have to disclose (if asked) that the previous sale fell through due to asbestos and other issues coming up on the survey.

It is definitely not a sellers market. It not a buyers market either. If I was in your position, I would get a reduction.

@RidingMyBike gsce results??? Surely not! We are lucky that my partners best friend is a contractor so we fill fit us in we just have a months lead time.

I do understand your points but the offer was accepted 15k under the asking so would it still be reasonable to ask for a reduction if there was asbestos/collapsed drain. I hadn't realised if we do an asbestos survey that it would mean they have to disclose is further!

@LeoOliver i think this is area dependent tbh but it has shifted slightly

Collapsed drain is possible grounds for a reduction as presumably it wouldn't be obvious from a viewing. Otherwise viewings are pretty much 'sold as seen' and house priced accordingly. Our earlier house it was obvious it was in a poor state (tiles falling off into bath, you could see the boiler, plumbing and electrics were elderly) so priced to take that into account. We did get a £600 reduction as the flat roof sprang a leak between viewing and survey!

How is the asbestos risk phrased in the survey? A lot of building surveys hedge around it by saying that asbestos is common in buildings of this age and to do a specialist survey. As a buyer I'd assume it would be something that I'd look into due to age of property. Our previous house we had asbestos in chimney lining and garage roof, both of which were eventually replaced by specialist contractors but neither was a problem unless disturbed.

What part of the country are you in? Your list seems quite small for £30k but I’m in the north west. We’re having a rewire, new roof, new heating system (pipes, heaters, boiler, etc) and the whole house replastered for £22k.

We've just successfully negotiated down our offer on the house we’re buying - we originally offered £288k (about 12% over) as the property was advertised as “cosmetic update only -a little work for a lot of reward”. Our survey returned all the work above plus more we can’t investigate to cost until we complete due to the disruption it’ll cause our elderly seller. We expected a new kitchen/bathroom/etc but not to need to stay in our rented flat for months while it’s ripped apart and put back together! So we got quotes and made a full budget spreadsheet.

The house was also undervalued by the surveyor and bank so, with all the work we need to pay for, we negotiated to £275k. If the price already reflects the work it will be harder to negotiate but it’s always worth a try.

The insurance companies are making a fortune from all of these idemnities!

I would like to hear a story of one that’s needed to be claimed on.

@rrrrrreatt no i have shortened the list of urgent works down significantly to the ones that are potentially dangerous, the rest are damp preventative and general maintenance which we are ignoring…. Lol. The issue for us is that it hasnt been overvalued. The surveyor and the mortgage company agree with our offer🙈

@RidingMyBike yes the artex on the living room ceiling was a giveaway so not AS concerned about it but the drains, subfloor and rewiring not so much. We didn't see any sockets in the skirting but there were two we didn't spot hidden away. Thinking its worth booking the surveys regardless as we will need it after purchase also! This way we MAY be able to negotiate, if not we will take the hit. I just dont want to aggravate the seller as we’ve had a separate issue with them in regards to delayed searches on our end (solicitors fault). Im going to speak to the agent and see what the seller is open to, at the end of the day we didnt sign up for a full refurb!!!

@Icelandeesh 😣this is always the case with insurance and they never want to pay out either. Its criminal!

My initial thoughts are how qualified was the surveyor?

The reason I ask is that we just sold a 200 year old cottage. We ended up part exing it with a new build developer. Both the developer and the couple who ended up buying it had a survey.

The one from the developer was less qualified and flagged tons of stuff that might be an issue around 30k worth but they couldn't confirm for sure as it would require a structural survey.

The couple paid for a full structural survey and he confirmed that the house was indeed fully stable and all of the issues pointed out were flagged by a less qualified surveyor covering their arse.

Just a word of warning. There are different levels of qualification for surveyors. If they're saying something could be an issue it's likely they're not qualified to actually say for sure. Get a proper structural surveyor on it before you even start thinking of any action.