Bathroom quote - red flag or acceptable??

[GoinSouth]

So quotes for a new shower unit, tray and cubicle, plus tiling. Quote very reasonable however he's asked us to provide a deposit of more than half the total cost for 'materials' - we have asked him to purchase all the above. Is this much deposit acceptable however.. seems a tad much to me - surely they have sufficient cash flow to purchase and bill us on completion. Happy to pay a small amount for deposit, but not 3/4 of the total!

I think it's not so much about cash flow as making sure they aren't left out of pocket if you change your minds or renege.

Separate the materials at cost from the labour.

I think it's ok for the deposit to be all of the materials plus up to half of the labour.

Assume you have it all in writing including a breakdown of costs?

I think for trades like that, paying for the materials upfront (and having them delivered to me) I'm totally fine with. Then I just pay them directly for the Labour. So it seems reasonable.

If you're worried about getting ripped off, why don't you arrange to meet your tradesperson at wherever they buy the materials, then you pay the supplier directly, and bring the materials directly to yours?

I have a very basic quote.. .this, this and this, then price - not broken down between material costs/labour. I certainly will go back to request further information. Just a tad nervous as we paid a similar service in good faith, CheckaTrade member, but lost all the money, company did a runner.

If the deposit is only for materials, you don't have any risk as you want it doing even if this person doesn't do the work in the end. If the contractor pays it they do have a risk, as they can't offload the items you chose.

Why do you assume they have sufficient cashflow to risk the money? It is a real problem purchasing items on behalf of customers, a lot of small businesses have cashflow problems. It is very common with bigger firms to pay a deposit.

Get the materials delivered to your address, then you have no risk.

Ok, so we have some additional work to be done - quote has come in at £5k.. builder is asking for 40% upfront, so £2k. I'm very nervous about paying this sort of money.

Any advice?

You've had advice - get a quote broken down so you can clearly see what you are paying for and order the materials to be delivered to your home.

If you have materials, how can you have a problem? You will own the materials. You would just get another plumber to fit them.

My parents have also been caught out (more than once!!) by paying too much deposit in advance. Long story, but to help you avoid the red flags:-

Firstly, you should absolutely 100% be asking for a detailed quote - with itemised costs for materials.

2/ Have you been involved in choosing any of the items? Asking because the quality of these can vary quite significantly… and especially for tiles. Even if you are going for plain white standard looking 6x6 tiles the thickness and finish does vary quite a lot.

3/ have you had other quotes? Another reason why you need an itemised quote - to compare prices. Good workmen will not be cheap, and will usually be booked quite a long way in advance. Suggest asking on a local FaceBook group for recommendations, and maybe even speaking to people who they have done work for (as on FB, their friends and family will often recommend- not just previous customers)

4/. You should not be paying in advance for any labour. Red flag

5/ Materials - any reputable builder/plumber will have a line of credit at builders merchants or suppliers for standard items. That means they do not pay in advance, and you might even be paying him for the completed job before the builder needs to settle his account.
Special tiles etc (that come from a ‘posh’ shop, or need to be specifically ordered) are a different situation and I would expect to pay for that upfront.

5/ If it is a small/ start-up company without access to credit then definitely make sure you pay the supplier directly, and arrange for delivery of items direct to you (ie/ do not allow builder to collect on your behalf). Then in worst case scenario, if things go wrong and you need to employ someone else to either do the work or finish any badly done work, at least you are not out of pocket for the materials.

If you have issues with the work not being completed satisfactorily, then only having a small amount left to pay will not be enough incentive for many ‘cowboys’ to come back and do snagging.

In my opinion - 40% upfront is very high, much too high !
That suggests he has cash flow problems - another red flag, and not something I would want to risk.

good luck

I echo @DogWithMyOwnRoom. Very good advice. Sometimes when they also supply they take a cut there as well which is fine -within reason. We had someone supply and fit and I was disappointed with the quality for the price but at the time I valued the convenience more.

This is not our bathroom work but building work. So no materials as such if you discount the cement, plaster etc. He's provided a quote on and itemised the job, but not the number of bags of plaster etc. We don't know anyone - new in the area - builder came from Bark. Good reviews but in our experience these are not to be relied upon in all instances consider our highly rated removals company last year took our money and ran.

You said in the OP So quotes for a new shower unit, tray and cubicle, plus tiling. Quote very reasonable however he's asked us to provide a deposit of more than half the total cost for 'materials'

Do you mean this is a separate tradesperson and a different quote/task?

I would not pay a deposit for labour, personally.

I wouldn't, especially if it's someone you've found on checkatrade (even recommended tradespeople screw others over sometimes). I don't think you'll see them back. Pay them daily/weekly whatever, after the work's been done to certain points.

Yes, this is a different job, different trade.

Tell me about it... we hired a removals company on CheckaTrade - decent reviews, made other various checks as best we could, great communication, on the day of removals they called with some excuse and left us stranded sitting on boxes. Advised us their office would refund money on next working day, money never arrived, company name was changed. I notified CheckaTrade who cancelled the company's membership but that was all I could do at that time, no energy or time to chase them through the Small Courts. Stung once, now paranoid!

Sorry, I’m confused. Have you had quotes for bathroom, or building work?

I would not pay a deposit for labour. Just find another company to quote.

Now chosen our plumber. Professional and transparent; "Payment terms are full payment upon receipt of invoice which would be sent once finished and you' are satisfied with the work. Payment either by cash or bank transfer. I can also accept debit/credit cards".

And this is a youngish guy with his own business (branded polo shirt hehe), came highly recommended by several people via local community site, Nextdoor.

Also, we decided to decline the "40% deposit" builder, and instead go for the one requesting 'payment within 3 days of completion', and good local reviews. May not do all the jobs we needed that Mr 40% could do but there are other pros that we've now considered.

Handymen next!!

Both! We've got a lot of work on a new property we've bought.

That should be 'on an old property'..