Planners said we'd get planning permission in pre-app advice and now saying we won't

[blueberrysummer]

Argh. We bought a wreck three months ago after getting pre-app advice from the local planning authority saying that we would be granted planning permission to turn it a residential home. They're now saying we can't. There's no difference in what we asked for then and what we're asking for now (I think they're trying to say they made a mistake in pre-app). I know pre-app isn't binding, but does anyone have any experience with this? Feeling broken.

I would suggest calling them and say what sort of application would they find acceptable and go from there.

Was it a residential property before?

It would also be worth speaking to the parish or town council and asking for their thoughts and try and get them on side. They may well be far happier if the site is lived in then being derelict
They don't have the power to pass/refuse an application, but it helps if they are in support.

If you do put in a reasonable application and it is refused - you can take it to appeal - though this is added stress to the equation.

With planning though it has to tick certain boxes and if it ticks those boxes it will pass, it can't be refused because the planner doesn't particularly like it for example.

Have a read of this to see if you can gain some hints www.self-build.co.uk/get-planning-permission-brownfield-land/

Did you get it in writing or was it just an informal
discussion?

What has changed and what is the reason for refusal?

It's an old factory (hard to describe) that has never been residential but has had holiday home approval in the past (now lapsed). The parish council supports us. The pre-app advice is in writing - it's several pages, saying that it is an unusual site that basically doesn't really fit into their local plan and concluding that it would get permission. They're now trying to say that it doesn't really fit in the local plan so it won't get permission. Literally nothing has changed, except the planning officer who wrote the pre-app advice has left so it's gone to someone else who disagrees.

Appeal. Most planning permission appeals succeed.

It can be subjective between planning officers. However if the application fits the requirements, it can be accepted but if it's in a conservation area for example, it makes it more complicated.
If the proposal is deemed to have a negative impact on the area, it can be refused.

As mentioned above, if it's gone through the application process and been refused, you will be advised on how to appeal.

However in this case, it sounds like a request to change the use of the building for residential use. This is more complicated and may cost more.

Are there any similar applications near by? I would look at their website and check to see if there were and what has been accepted/refused.

I would also go back to the planning officer to ask if there's anything you can do to make it acceptable.

Good luck OP

Not according to the government figures on gov.uk
"The data shows that there has been a drop in allowed planning appeals from 2018 onwards. Between April 2010 and September 2018, the average was 33% with quarterly variations between 30% and 36%. From October 2018 until the end of December 2020 the average was 25%."
Or the planning portal which says:

On average only about one appeal in three is successful, according to the Planning Inspectorate's records. This rate has remained broadly constant over many years

It's a complete one-off, which is what is causing the problem, I think - nothing to compare it to. The local plan is really unclear about what should happen to buidings like this. It says that historical buildings should be able to convert, but this is seventies and ugly. The last planning officer said that given the unusualness, it should be granted permission. The new one is saying it has to stay industrial.

I think you have to appeal. Surely the fact that the parish council supports you is good, also that it has previously had pp for residential.

You need professional advice. Find a local planning consultant. A couple of hundred quid now is better than wasting the money you will
spend on a formal application.

I think the first planner missed a local plan allocation for employment uses, but without knowing the detail no one can help you more than that.

And most appeals don’t succeed.

If factory is potentially high value I would instruct a planning consultant, planning solicitor and get a planning barrister (ideally a QC) on board.

I think you may need the planning solicitor on instructed in order to instruct the barrister as public can't instruct barrister directly.

I would get this called into planning committee (if it is an application delegated to officers to determine) and get QC to appear on your behalf and state why just because it doesn't sit on all fours with plan doesn't mean should be a refusal. QC can also submit a written representation for you.

Also get your local elected member to support you. They may also be able to appear at planning committee and voice their support for you.

Of course you could still be refused and need to take it to appeal but having a legal and planning argument to present to elected Members and planning officers can only strengthen your case and can also assist you at appeal.

Good luck!

If you get a good confident bolshie QC it can really be effective.

You really won’t want to pay for a QC for this! It’s not a 1000 house site!

However I think your issue might be that the area the building sits in is designated as work or industrial. The plan should make this clear. If it’s not a residential area but it has a factory, it’s almost certainly industrial or work designated. The individual Building might not matter. A similar issue can apply to redundant pubs. They won’t grant pp for them to be houses. Neither will they allow shops to become houses without a struggle. If an area is commercial, they want it to provide commercial services. Of course it can be ludicrous when buildings are empty and need another use! But Councils are like oil tankers at times. Cannot change course very quickly!

However changes of use take place all the time. Is this an officer or committee decision? Have you spoken to your councillor? Do you have local support? Would conversion enhance the area? Can you prove this building is redundant? What sits around it? Would your conversion reduce traffic? What about improvement to the look of the building?

A parish council has no more clout than an individual. It’s better for them to support but they don’t carry any weight.

Get a planning consultant on board. Try and get a committee decision. Look at the local plan and overarching District plan in more detail. It’s difficult to know what will happen. It you do need bigger guns on your side. I agree pre planning is a waste of time and money if the advice is inaccurate. What you need to know is what can be done to allow the building to become residential.

I will never forget our architect saying “the thing you have to remember about planning is that it is neither logical nor fair.”

Appeal.

Thanks so much for all the advice. It's not a zone thing - it's the fact that it's in open countryside and the local plan doesn't want a residential house in open countryside. The fact is that this eyesore of a building is already there - and although we do our best to keep people out, it does attract vandalism etc and it is a dangerous site once people are in (steep drops inside the building). It seems especially mad because we could turn it into offices without planning, which would have about 30 people trekking there every day without any nearby facilities for sandwiches etc. So they don't want the impact of a house, but they can't stop offices. Basically, we need a bit of common sense and the first planning officer who'd been there for years applied it and the second one (who's only just started) is saying no.

The factory was built in the seventies and - I say this as its loving owner - it is pig ugly. But we could turn it into quite a cool house with a bit of imagination (and our really great architect!).

Definitely get a planning consultant to write a letter to support your application.
It's helpful that the Parish Council are supportive.
Have you spoken to your local District Councillor? Maybe they could support it too. At least get the application to Committee.