What or whom do I need to fix a droopy front elevation?

[Wombat27A]

What or whom do I need to fix a droopy front elevation?

The house is brick and tile, very solid 1950s build but for some unknown reason, the box windows are brick below the living room and plywood with a tile cladding above.

This has sunk when the windows were last changed and there's visible cracking along both sides of the box window in the upstairs bedroom box.

It's never really bothered us as the cracks look fairly stable but the thin wall area isn't good for heat retention (no insulation at all) and the living room is poxy cold in winter.

There's a chance we may have to move as the neighbours have sold up so I'm starting to addess things that might be a massive red flag to buyers.

What do we need to start to fix this?

A builder, a structural engineer or an architect? Does it require building regs plans?

Above the bedroom window is a gable and that's been replaced as it was paper-thin cedar shingles, so that's relatively stable.

My understanding is thats quite a serious thing. Who did the windows, do you have a guarantee?

The windows were done by the previous owner. We bought it with the cracks there.

Very long story but the whole place is a "project".

I wouldn't leave this for a prospective buyer tho...DH has just said he never stands in the box window upstairs! He's built like a whippet too. 😁

I’d be concerned that the windows don’t have the correct structural supports and the bay is actually separating from the house. But it’s very hard to tell without a picture of what you mean.

The bay has definitely separated from the house but is relatively stable. It's actually a square bay window, so has windows on 3 sides.

It was probably built with windows that were structural but they were then replaced by uPVC resulting in the sag.

I think you need a structural engineer to examine and report

You definitely don't need an architect but a structural engineer or decent builder could give you an idea of what needs doing. I presume you don't want to change the style and look of the front of the house, but just repair structurally and add insulation at the time?

Yes, any work would need to pass Building Regulations, and get a sign-off certificate from the Council, otherwise you'll find it hard to sell your house. The building work would need to meet the current regulations and be inspected at stages through the construction/repair process. Any new windows would also come with a fensa certificate which prospective buyers would want.

I'm intrigued by 'There's a chance we may have to move as the neighbours have sold up', why does the neighbours selling mean that you'd need to sell?

Could you ask your buildings insurance company to take a look?

You need a structural engineer. You can’t possibly say if it’s stable or not. How long have you owned the house and did you have a full structural survey? It’s quite common in older houses for the original wooden windows to be replaced with upvc and problems to occur, wooden windows are usually structurally supportive and upvc isn’t. Upvc often needs additional support added to the bay, and many companies don’t bother, they can be complete cowboys sometimes!

Sounds like you're missing bay poles

No, just the valuation but there were particularly difficult circumstances when we bought & a lot of the issues were obvious, so not too worried. We've done a fair bit of other work here already

We're not inexperienced buyers. This is just an issue I've not had before & I wasn't quite sure where to start with a fix. We did have a house sag internally when a builder took some door frames out but the builder sorted that out.

Goes off to Google baypoles.

I'm pretty certain that you're right in that the original windows were structural & the replacements aren't...I'm going to see if the neighbours remember, as they're lived here 50 years.

Thank you.

Love your user name. 😁👌

We are in a town that has gained hugely in popularity as a tourist destination & the house next door is immaculate, so may end up as an Airbnb or holiday home as I know people are looking to buy here for this reason.

You might find this blog post helpful - it came up when I was looking for the pros and cons of replacing timber windows with upvc. I opted not to in the end

otra.org.uk/replacement-windows

That is an excellent article. Thank you so much. 👍🙂

We had a similar issue in a 1920s house that we previously owned. The original structural wooden windows had been replaced with aluminium framed windows . Turns out the house had been built without any lintels over the windows just brick and the removal of the wooden framed windows placed extra loading on the bricks and mortar and the whole lot started to drop. We employed a structural engineer and ended up replacing the windows for ones with bay poles and fitting window lintels ( wood were sufficient ) and brick ties . It was some years ago and I can’t remember the exact coatings but i know it wasn’t as horrendous as we thought it was going to be. Good luck

Spent this morning lifting the carpet upstairs & trying to see if there were any visible clues to construction.

The floorboards run into the box, so I assume the joists will go the other way?

The bit between the upstairs & downstairs is tile clad outside, so it's not easy.

Also talked to the neighbours. Have been a bit slow to realise but the original windows were metal. We still have some at the back but they are now internal. It's an interesting house!

Yes - joists should be perpendicular to floorboards.

it probably is worth a quick chat with a structural engineer. It’s difficult that you didn’t have a structural survey when you bought as they could have picked this up and you would already have some idea what you’re dealing with. Depending on how long you’ve owned the house this could be an insurance thing - it might be costly to fix.

A good local builder familiar with the types of houses and common issues probably knows how to fix the issues as well as a structural engineer. This, however, depends on you knowing one.

It's a bit wild west around here with builders. Had extensive work done on leaks, which are still not really fixed. Needs a whole lot of work but is perfectly liveable in, albeit a bit cold in winter, probably due to the thermal sink that is this issue!

Generally, I'd agree about structural surveys and do advise people to get them but all the issues here were pretty obvious and we were going to address them over time.

My main issue is that I'm menopausal with a dodgy thyroid & arthritis and I really can't be asked to sort things anymore! It's really a "love it and do it up or list it" scenario. Can't find a house I like tho, or know where to move to, plus have elderly parents needing care. Interesting times!

Probably good to get it done before the next winter if possible. Have any of your neighbours had work done in the last year and would recommend their builder? Otherwise a structural engineer may be able to recommend decent builders they've worked with.

I've recently had surgery and don't have the head space for the next project in our ongoing renovation, so understand where you're coming from!

Here you go.

This room is our spare/dumping ground, so it's taken a bit to get it cleared.

The builders are booked up for years. I need the roof looking at too...again ideally before winter...😁👌

Wee update, got a quote for replacement of the windows. They have an engineered solution for supporting the bay & we think it will work out really well. The bay will be bolted to the house too! 🏡👍😁

The work has now been completed. Very pleased.

The windows look fantastic and have corners that are structural supports. The whole bay has been insulated and the frame bolted back onto the house!

The frontage looks so much better.

Thanks for all the help, which pointed me in the right direction.

Good outcome!