Should this survey report affect our purchase?

[casaberry]

We had a survey done last week on the house we are hoping to buy and we have finally received the report. We've sent it to our solicitor but won't hear back for a few days.

Overall, the house, a Victorian property, is in good condition but I'm wondering whether some things might affect the purchase.

• Artificial roof tiles might contain asbestos and could cause an issue if work is done and they're disturbed
• Loft conversion doesn't have escape windows, fire-resistant door, mains fire alarm or central heating
• Some damp found but doesn't seem to be massive
• Not much space (no wall cavities) to insulate better
• Poorly supported brickwork left in place after a chimney breast was removed

We're FTB, so it's all new to us. Are any of these things potential show stoppers?

I’d only really be concerned about the poorly supported bricks and I’d want a builder to look at it. Is it a one off house or is there a street of them?

The only thing that would give me pause for thought is the loft. The rest seem fairly standard in a Victorian house.

Are they listing the loft as a bedroom and priced the house as such? If so did the loft meet building regulations at the time it was done and the surveyor is now pointing out issues compared to if it was done today, if you get what I mean? If the loft wasn’t done to code you could be paying the price for a 3 bed but it’s only really a 2 bed.

Is the loft insulated? Because if not then its not going to be useful as a room - too cold in winter and too hot in summer. The fireplace is an issue. The damp could be an issue. Has the house been priced with these points in mind? If it's cheaper than everything else around you now know why.

The loft was done to regulation at the time, it's just not up to current regs.

It's a mid-terrace house.

What about the possible asbestos-containing tiles?

just check the chimney breast, ignore the rest it's normal for stuff like that to come up on survey

Surveyors will warn of asbestos in any house built before the ban on asbestos. I wouldn’t worry if it’s in the roof tiles, as long as the tiles are undisturbed you will be fine. Even when they are removed, as long as they are removed whole it shouldn’t be a problem.

Unsupported chimney breasts are common in Victorian houses, we had the remainder of ours supported for £600 about 3 years ago. Damp normally has an obvious cause, common one is the ground level being raised too high outside (a patio eg) or leaky gutters. If you know a builder can you ask them to look for you?

If asbestos is not disturbed it's fine, and unless there is urgent need for roof repairs is a non issue. Plus it's not definite they even have asbestos.
The loft is fine if it has building regs for when it was done, but so should the chimney breast - done sort of lintel or support should have been installed with building control sign off on that. If not then how much to rectify?
Damp os a non issue - I don't think I've ever had a survey that didn't find done.
Cavity walls (or lack of) also due to age of building so not much you can do about that.
Have your solicitor check all the permissions and certificates.
Surveys are good for informing you about house maintenance going forward. A Victorian or period house is always going to require upkeep.

I think you need to ask the vendors some questions and get answers straight from then as opposed to what EA mentioned when you looked round for example.

It is common to issue a list of questions to the vendors once you have received the survey report and read through the Property Information Form and the Fittings and Fixtures Form. If you haven't seen these ask for copies from your solicitor. The survey just captures the state of the house on that day but the forms filled in by the vendors often give more background (eg if damp has been treated in the past, if they have building regs certificates etc). You draft your queries once you have read these three documents in conjunction.

On face value (and please note I don't know the house or full details so everything may not be necessary or relevant) the questions I would ask are:

The survey has identified damp in xxx room. Can you confirm if this damp has been treated in the past and if your have any guarantees?

Can you confirm when the artificial roof tiles were installed and if you have any warranties or guarantees?

Can you confirm when the loft was converted? Can you provide a copy of the planning permission and building regulation certificates for the conversion?

The chimney breast has been removed in xxx room and the survey found poorly supported brickwork. Adequate support should have been provided. Please confirm when this work was carried out and provide the building regulation certificate.

Victoria houses should breathe so the cavities aren’t an issue and a small amount of damp isn’t really either, keep your Victoria house well ventilated. The roof wouldn’t bother me either, the asbestos card is one they put in every survey.

i would want a second opinion about the unsupported fireplace though.

What does the surveyor suggest about the chimney? Do they recommend a structural engineer’s report/getting steel installed or are they saying it’s ok and no action is necessary but it would be done differently now?

What are you intending to do with the loft? From a renegotiation perspective if it was done to code then there’s no scope for discount in my opinion. But if it will be a bedroom I’d definitely want to change the windows and door.

With regards to central heating in the loft: this would be something I’d want addressed. Did you realise it wasn’t heated in the same way as the rest of the house? Do they have storage heaters or electric radiators? Could potentially quibble about this and see if they offer some money off. It would be hard to retrofit to the system without holes/boxing/potentially bigger boiler.

All those things were visible/predictable when you viewed so I think it would be unreasonable to ask for reductions based on them.

All Victorian houses are a little bit damp and need ventilating. It was obvious that the tiles weren't the original slate ones, it was obvious that the loft conversion was done a while ago. From looking in the upstairs and downstairs rooms you can clearly see that a chimney breast has been taken out. Victorian houses never have wall cavities.

It may sound harsh but if you asked me for a reduction I would remarket as I would be concerned that you would make stupid demands and slow the house sale up.

These things are not all obvious to FTBs who have never been through the process, may not be familiar with period properties, and are unfamiliar with survey reports and whether the points they raise are typical or cause for alarm. For example I have no idea what the process for removing a chimney breast is or how to spot it with the naked eye, so it's not something I would have been scrutinizing during a 20-minute viewing. Nor do I know anything about escape windows or how to spot sources of damp. Hence the enquiry.

Thanks so much to everyone for the helpful feedback. We'll be discussing the report with our solicitor this week, and it's really good to have some specific questions we can ask and a better sense of what issues might be fairly serious or require going back to the sellers with questions.

It's worth having a look at the Haynes Victorian House manual - we got the 1930s house manual from the library as it gives you things to look out for especially when you're inexperienced.
This is the accompanying website:
www.victorian-house.co.uk

It is rather buyer beware though, whether you're an inexperienced or experienced buyer. When I bought my first house I took someone with me who'd got a lot more knowledge.

@casaberry
The loft “conversion” would bother me. What regulations did it comply with? When was it converted? Is the staircase regulation compliant? Must be a certain width and head height. Fire door is absolutely vital with no other means of escape! Vital. So what else doesn’t comply with regulations? This, I suspect, is not habitable space and definitely should not be sold as an extra room as it has no heating. It’s merely an improved loft. Be very careful to check what a loft conversion must have and ask more questions of your surveyor. Not the vendor. Ask if if is a habitable room and what needs to be done to bring it up to current standards required of a habitable loft conversion. Really drill down on this. Your safety is the issue here.

The fireplace is equally worrying. A great weight of a chimney is not adequately supported. All weight in a house must be distributed into the ground/foundations via walls, piers or pillars. Inadequate support means this is not happening. Ask the surveyor about what needs to be done to put this right. If they are RICS qualified they should know. If not, you would need the report of a structural engineer.

Tiles partially made from asbestos need careful removal by specialist operatives in some cases. It costs a lot more. If they are not damaged, they are ok to leave.

Damp can have a multitude of causes. Often breach of damp proof course or air bricks in Victorian houses.

I would get more info from the surveyor about the chimney and the loft. Both are areas of concern. Do not pay for habitable loft space that’s really a shoddy loft storage “room.” You really need it to have the required fire door, heating and stairs to building regs standard. Don’t have the wool pulled over your eyes.

@casaberry
These are important loft considerations: attached. Not in the right order but all relevant.

I think the unsupported brickwork might need to be addressed - the seller might know if in fact an RSJ was put in, there might be building regs consent, and you could get a builder to let you know how much it would cost to correct.
We had a loft conversion done about 16 years ago, and building regs did require an escape window back then. It's something you'd want, anyway! I suspect it might be a big job to have one put in now - I'd be investigating the price of that.
You can easily install a fire door, and a decent fire alarm, but what will you do about the heating? Is the loft space insulated properly?
I think you need to do a bit more research, maybe get quotes for those issues.

My Brother bought a house with the chimney breast removed. He negotiated this in the price (-£5k) and then had it put back in

And that is why you need to do lots of research before you buy a house, especially if you have never owned an older house before. It is not the sellers fault that you haven't done this. House purchase is very much caveat emptor.

But regardless, buying any house involves taking on a risk and the survey , no matter how in depth will never spot everything which is wrong with the building, only things which are visible at the time of purchase. It's really about making sure that there is nothing terrifyingly expensive to fix, like a completely failing roof or subsidence. Pretty much anything else can be lived with for a bit and fixed when you can save up a bit.

Re chimney breasts, they should go all the way from the top to the bottom of the house, so if an upstairs room has one, but the room below doesn't, then it has been removed and this may or may not have been done correctly. Obviously it would be reasonable to ask the seller about this but they may not know and in a seller's market like this I would not expect a reduction for it.

I really would expect a reduction. It’s a structural fault. The chimney might be unstable. and remedial work and further investigation won’t be cheap. It really needs a structural engineer to look at it.

Yes, the survey flagged the chimney as an urgent issues and recommended a structural engineer take a look at it.

The loft has electric storage heaters and a macerating toilet unit. I think it meets older regulations but I think it was done up under a previous owner, not the current sellers. Not sure how long ago. It's done up as a bedroom (at least when we looked at it!) and marketed as a bedroom. We'd use it as a master bedroom or a home office/guest room.

These are definitely things we'll discuss with our solicitor.

Really appreciate everyone's feedback.

The key ekenrbrz are fire doors and safe staircase. It might have needed the joists strengthened. Lots of things to think about and resolve. Get the engineers report before you do anything else.,

We've been looking into scheduling a structural engineer site visit and a damp inspection. Possibly also a full gas inspection.

Who do we instruct to look at fire safety issues?

FTB naivete here: does the buyer cover all these costs? One gas engineer we spoke with said they do these all the time and it's always paid for buy the seller. But our solicitor said it would be our responsibility. Or could we negotiate to split the costs or something?

I guess it would depend if any serious issues found might result in a price reduction.

I'd be OK with that. The chimney should be easily fixed. Most of the loft issues are newer loft regulations and easily fixed.

HI @DisforDarkChocolate Do you mean you'd be ok covering the costs as the buyer or splitting it if asked if you were the seller?

Surely it's up to the potential buyer to pay for any surveys?