Steel Beam

[Beamed22]

N/C for this as incredibly outing...

Looking for some advice or just some solidarity as I am losing the plot.

We started a "simple" kitchen extension at the beginning of March with a 12 week programme. It's now July and it still doesn't have a roof.

Part of the design is a very large steel beam, which replaces a previous smaller beam and a wall that we have taken down. This steel beam has been on my drive for 8 weeks, the problem is the builder does not know how to get it into the goddamm house. No works have taken place on my house for four weeks and I cannot continue on in this way - we have temp drainage and the upstairs is being held up by steel props. He keeps saying it will be going in on x day or y day or he is speaking to specialist lifting companies - but weeks are going by and still no movement.

Should I be giving up and speaking to another builder; speaking to lifting companies myself? Giving him an ultimatum?

I dont feel like I can think straight on this any more or make any kind of meaningful decision, it just feels like I will be living with a shell of a kitchen for the rest of my life.

Any kind words or advice accepted...

How heavy is it? If you post the measurements, I can work it out. Then you’ll know if it’s something that can be lifted by a few people or whether it needs specialist equipment.

Something is wrong here. Is there an issue with building control who have queried the measurements or structural calcs? I can see no reason why this is dragging otherwise.
For context I am mid renovation and have lot of very big RSJs - one is 8 metres, another even longer. I have never heard a single word about getting them in place - it was just done.
I would be demanding to be cc’d on all comms with the building control inspector and wouldn’t pay another penny until you hear exactly what’s going on .

It's 6m 254 x 254 x 89 kg universal column so its a beast - it can't be lifted by people so needs specialist equipment @dizzyupthegirl86

No issues with building control @NewHouseNewMe it is literally that he hasn't sorted out a way of getting it in. The extension has been ready for it for about 6 weeks. Not paying anything as we aren't getting invoiced as they are not doing any work whatsoever! I'm just stuck in no man's land. But yes absolutely it should just be done...

i think he’ll just need a genie then. You typically rent them as you would a mini digger or something similar!

I had an 8.5m beam fitted & it was thicker too. A monster beam. On installation day our structural engineer turned up to watch it being installed as it was the biggest beam he'd ever seen used. I know that cranes are usually used for large beams & this is no issue with proper planning. Our first major beams for the loft were craned in. We needed permission from the council to close the road for an hour. For our second build, the 8.5m beam, we had a Polish team of builders on a tight budget & they were excellent. You don't HAVE to have a crane. They cut up scaffold poles into 1m pieces & Roman-style, rolled the beam into the back garden & even turned 90 degrees like this. There were enough men to keep moving the rolling scaffold. When it came to lifting, they had 6 manual lifts. These look a bit like individual cherry-pickers. They slotted under the beam (as the scaffold poles were removed) and were hand-cranked in unison very carefully. The monster beam was gently slid into position. Our builder got about 30 men in on this day to make light work of it & it saved us 1000s. Your chap sounds inexperienced.

Sorry, 30 was a typo, meant to say 20 men

This pic is to give you an idea. This isn't the exact lift my guys used but it was similar. Ours had bigger stabilizers

Thanks @dizzyupthegirl86 he has mentioned a genie before but that hasn't been tried yet - we had a small crane which moved it round the back of the house but not into position in the house

That sounds impressive @CheeryTulip ! He isn't inexperienced (own company and in his 60s etc) and I know the steel is big but not out the norm so I just have no idea how it has got to this.

Not sure if it's worth me trying to get it sorted myself at this point...I can't bear this much longer.

It's a bit late now you're underway, but another hint for the future is to have timescales written into the contract. For every week's delay on our build, we kept 1k. But this never happened in the end because we finished 2 weeks early.

CheeryTulip · Yesterday 21:01
It's a bit late now you're underway, but another hint for the future is to have timescales written into the contract. For every week's delay on our build, we kept 1k. But this never happened in the end because we finished 2 weeks early.

You can't just put a random penalty clause into contracts these days. It has to be a pre-determined calculation of loss. So if you're paying £1k a week to stay in a hotel because you cant live in your house at the same time then fair enough, but if not and no financial loss then you cant have a penalty.

Just as an update, turns out the steel was a bit of a red herring - he's basically on the brink of going bust and has been lying to us for months; and we have lost all our money as unfortunately we were very naive and believed the BS he was telling us. So we will likely be stuck with a huge hole where our kitchen should be for the foreseeable. Totally devastated.

I’m so sorry to read this @Beamed22

How much have you paid him? If it’s not much, can you get another builder to finish off or at least get you structurally sound? Having props long term isn’t ideal as I’m sure you know.

Can you secure any material left on site in case any creditors (or he) decide to take it as collateral, e.g. tiles, RSJs etc.?

I’d also want to be sure he is going bankrupt and this isn’t some story. I’d be going through the small claims court to try to recoup any money he owes you.

That sounds horrific, what an awful situation, you have my sympathy. I wouldn't let him onto your property again, and claim everything there is as owned by you, given he probably owes you thousands in incomplete work.

I'd also seek to recover everything possible through the small claims court. If he's a sole trader, you may be able to get a charge put on any property he owns.

Interesting that a builder is in the brink of going bust. Any good builder is currently raking it in as labour costs have increased dramatically

Oh, that's so stressful. The same thing happened to us (then the bloke just opened up another company), it took me months to find someone willing to finish the work. Project took 18 months instead of 6-9.

It's not particularly big. That beam weighs 534kg. It can be lifted around the back and into the building using 5 or 6 guys rolling it on cut scaffold poles no problem.

Once it's around the back, you'll need two Genie lifts (hired from Brandon, HSS or similar) to lift it up and into place. brandonhirestation.com/tool-hire/lifting/genie-lift-hire/genie-lifts

This is a bit outing but I run a construction business specialising in residential extensions and renovations. We do this and much bigger all the time. I employ 16 people so can pull people from other sites when we lift steel.

It looks like your builder is very small ie one man band or just a couple of guys and he doesn't have access to enough man powers to get it into a position where it can be lifted with two genies.

You need more guys to get it around the back, into the new extension to the rear wall to be demolished.

Has your builder started propping the wall yet? That's the first step.

OP do you have legal cover on your house insurance? If so, worth speaking to them about the situation with the builder.

Thanks all.
Things are about as bad as they could be.
Props have already been in for over 3 months, we've been left in this position a long time with nothing happening.
Nothing on site for him to take or us to own except the steel which is unlikely to get nicked given the weight. Just a full skip that has been here months. Def will not be letting him in but he is completely incommunicado anyway.
Our expensive new kitchen is sat in our garage.
We have paid him almost everything as he billed up front for materials and then gave us a sob story three weeks ago that if we "just" paid him the rest in advance it would solve his cash flow problems and he could get restarted and finish it off. Shock news - he didn't do anything and has lost all of that money.
Hes a Ltd company so minimal recourse.
We are going via CAB and following their advice with letters etc but if he has nothing I cant see us getting anything back. It's too much money for small claims court.
Hadn't considered legal cover on insurance though so will look into that.
We have had other builders round to quote to get us structurally sound again at least, and then see where we go from there. He's also caused various bits of damage to other areas of the property we will need to pay to put right.
Just devastated and so very, very angry.
@Hobele so sorry this happened to you too. This was meant to be a 12 week build and we are currently at about 23 weeks and just have a hole in the house. I think we will go into years.

Surely that's the opposite then - costs have gone up on everything dramatically so if he has quoted all his jobs fixed price months ago, he will be losing it not raking it in

The other thing to consider is that the price of materials has gone up hugely, but credit limits haven’t. So quite often, builders are having to dip into their own funds which causes them all sorts of problems.

sorry to read this, OP, I hope you manage to get it sorted.

Exactly. I would have felt sorry for him and we probably would've paid him more if he had been honest about it all. Ironically I work in construction so I know how hard things are. Instead he strung us along for months and lied, and basically robbed us a few weeks ago by asking for an advance.
Thank you, me too!

Your story is like ours, word to word. I bet he'll open up another company soon and start all over. It's beyond words how these people are allowed to operate like this for years.
In our case, it was a medium sized company with 3 directors, multiple fallouts with their workers, we had to pay for the skip to be removed as well (that was probably the smallest expense). I'll keep my fingers crossed that you'll find someone to take over (and that you still have the fianances.)

We nearly fell for one of these “let it fall and then start a new Ltd” outfits. They’d done lots of work for a neighbour and gave the best plans and a very professional quote etc. We just happened to notice that the quote was in a different name and with a bit of research, saw that his daughter was the director of the new company because the previous one had gone bankrupt, as had others beforehand.
I think we need to tighten the law around bankrupt limited companies and directors setting up again with family members at the helm. Not sure how but they cause destruction everywhere.

@Beamed22 "MarieG10
Interesting that a builder is in the brink of going bust. Any good builder is currently raking it in as labour costs have increased dramatically*

Surely that's the opposite then - costs have gone up on everything dramatically so if he has quoted all his jobs fixed price months ago, he will be losing it not raking it in"*

Only if he quoted a long time ago so costs greater and labour not. We have friends in small construction and are challenges in material costs and more important availability, their profit margins from the labour element have improved dramatically. Simple commercial market, huge increase in demand, coupled with huge decrease in labour availability as many EU workers have gone home (Covid and Brexit effects)

Just as another update, turns out this guy is an absolute criminal - he hasn't finished a job for years, and there are literally loads of us victims that have found each other.

Just putting it out there in case any other mumsnetters have been f'd over in the Derby area by a builder in the last few years, please PM me!