Wooden windows vs high end PVC in major renovation

[meloncolic]

We are doing a full renovation on a 1920s house that was going to be knocked down.

Obviously the job is now at least twice the price it would have been 2 or 3 years ago (full rewire, replumb, new heating, new windows, small permitted development extension to make sense of a pointless room, plastering etc etc).

Amazing builder and also bro in law are advising me to go for high-end PVC windows, because of costs and also because of maintenance issues (damp irish coastal area and DH nor me likely to get on a ladder to repaint every 3 years so £££ maintenance).

Anyone done this? We have renovated several properties before, this is it and we're never moving again, but I love the classy look of wood and am a bit despondent (the whole thing is a bit despondent making! Even though it is great we are bringing an almost derelict building back into use).

wood effect pvc is what I should say.

I was looking at evolution windows and assuming that was the kind of thing he means.

Also we have metal framed stained glass windows to sort out too - any advice on what people have done with those to satisfy building control's need for insulation etc. currently in bad state of repair.

Aargh! tell me it's going to be worth it!

Oooh no don't put pvc windows in a 1920s house. I'd definitely go wood, or for something with less maintenance, aluminium! Steel windows existed back then and were used a lot.

We put wood-effect PVC sash windows into our Edwardian house when we renovated it, they looked really good. Maybe not indistinguishable from wood, but they definitely didn't look like PVC.

We had them made up in off-white so they looked like painted wood.

And actually, my logic was that the Edwardians probably would have done the same.

Our house had all the original cast iron fireplaces, with the original imitation-mahogany paintwork. In that level of house (middle class 3-bed semi) fixtures and fittings were often off the shelf, mass-produced cast iron, painted to look more fancy. So I think wood-effect PVC is entirely in-keeping (and couldn't afford the real thing anyway...).

Just how '1920s' is the house? Full-on Art Deco or just happened to be built in the 1920s?

I was wary of PVC when we had them installed (also 1920s house) but I don't regret it. My tip: choose windows with 'equal sightlines', which means that all the windows (fixed and opening windows) have the same width of frames. Windows that open need thicker frames and it was common in the early days to have a mix of thick and thin frames in the same set of windows (eg bay window), which is one of the reasons PVC glazing looked so awful.

See here for a comparison: www.windowstoday.co.uk/top_tips.htm

We loved the stained glass in my front door which needed replacing. When I discussed with various firms , who dealt in wood replacement doors, they were able to get a specialist glass firm to remove the glass, ( and thanks to Covid we spent 6 months with a boarded up door) and restore it, and now it is a triple glazed.(ie sandwiched between two panes of glass.) in our new door.
We went for engineered wood replacement windows which have a 10 year guarantee on their stain/paint. Check out George Barnsdale who manufacture windows and do a lot of windows for old, and listed buildings.
IME really good quality uPVC is not much different in cost than the wooden windows. Admittedly, that is based on prices from last year.

As you live on Irish coast I'd definitely go with the high end PVC. Wooden windows will rot so quickly where you are. You won't be able to keep up with the maintenance. I have a relative who went with wood to keep it 'in-keeping' on SW coast in Ireland. Huge regret...

Whatever you do don’t fit cheap wooden windows, fit top quality with proper joints - not dowels. Otherwise fit uPVC, if it’s a modest family house most owners don’t want the regular maintenence.

We have good quality zuPVC on the back of the house which gets sea breeze and wood at the front. The house is nearly 200 years old but has had alterations over the years.I needed a lot of persuasion over the PVC but it has been successful.Previously we were painting every 3 years or so and the PVC is incredibly air tight so the house is much warmer. They look fine , no worse than many changes that people make to their houses although not as good as newly maintained wooden windows.

I've almost finished a renovation on a £2m house. We put in upvc (off white woodgrain) sliding sash windows. Everyone has said how beautiful the windows are.

UP VC, friend had them put in her beautiful 1908 house, encapsulated lovely stained glass. It looks fantastic. It wasn’t cheap, but much less than wood. Conservation area but the main planning guy was off long term sick and she got it in under radar. Now all her neighbours using her as precedent [shrug]

We've used white woodgrain upvc sash windows on a Victorian house and they look really good and in keeping with others in the street who have old wood ones (we were replacing cheap 1990s casements). Conservation area but not listed, pp went through no problem.

Good quality pvc windows are far, far better than they used to be. We've got some pvc sash, wood effect and you can hardly tell the difference. We live next to the coast in a tall house (4 stories). If we had wooden ones, we'd be paying for scaffolding every 3 or 4 years just to repaint the wood. Our house is much warmer now.

Would Crittal windows work? They are now pre sprayed with something and I don’t think need repainting. I guess it depends on the style of 1920 house.

I live on a road that are a mix of 1920/1930 houses - all pretty much different as plots were sold a singles. The only ones with that look poorly renovated are the ones with windows with weird thicker frames, especially on the ones that open. I think it’s the style of the window rather than the material that affects the look from the outside. Cheap wood or uPCV windows that don’t match the original window design look bad.

We had wooden ones put in, but they were pre sprayed with a slightly plastic paint before installing. Seems to have lasted well but then we aren’t on the coast. Our stained glass window was carefully taken out in the frame and then a special frame built and the stained glass window refitted to this frame. Ours is glass on the outside and the stained glass to the inside. Doesn’t look quite as nice as it did but is much warmer and wouldn’t have survived otherwise.

This is all really helpful, especially the ones about coastal ones.

It's just a bog standard white rough rendered 1920s house, would have probably had wooden casement with leading (which we're going to have) rather than glazing bars.

Aluminium would be even more expensive though lovely! Current bill is £65k so we really have to look at it.

Wood for sure

Interesting! I'm also in a conservation and our planning department won't allow them even though I don't have the original windows. I think different areas interpret Historic Englands guidance differently and ours our very strict 😭

Upvc. The salt air will destroy your windows and you will be spending out ££££££ every 3 years to have them painted and renovated.

I would go PVC. I hate it when windows stick or don’t open properly or let in a draft, and I know I would let the maintenance slide.

We have PVC sash and it is noticeable in a terrace which are wood and which are pvc, because the sides are thicker (more frame, less glass).

However I don’t think it’s a bad thing to use a more suitable material just because it wasn’t invented when the house was built.

If ‘wood effect’ means with indented lines scraped down the plastic, I wouldn’t bother, as you never see wooden windows (or doors) having natural grain showing through the paint, they are usually sanded smooth.