How much cash to take on this house?

[Lexi334]

Very well aware that this is a “how long is a piece of string” type question but I’ve never done anything like this before and literally have no idea if we’re talking £50k or £150k 🙈🤣 this has the potential to be a forever family home for us but we hadn’t really thought about taking on a project.

To take on this renovation, how much cash would you want to have?

NEEDS:

• new electrics


• new boiler


• upstairs shower room striped out and replaced with 3 piece bathroom suite & tiled etc


• artex ceilings throughout that need removed


• everything replastered


• kitchen moved to “bedroom1”


• kitchen turned into a utility

• (carpets/vinyls replaced throughout)


• (painted & decorated throughout)

we can do those last 2 ourselves at just the coat of materials so don’t need those factored in really.

I know finishes etc make a huge difference - I’m just talking standard stuff here.
This house has come up in an area of our town that we love but never thought we’d be able to afford. We could offer a bit over the valuation and we’d still have some cash left over - we just have no idea if it’s anywhere near enough to start turning this into our forever family home.
The sellers are in their 90s and the house is very dated but has been immaculately maintained.

Obviously if we love it as much at our viewing I’d look into proper quotes for things to see if it’s going to be possible for us. I just want to know if I should even be taking up the sellers time if it’s not realistic for us.

Our new combi boiler has cost 3.5k without new radiators
Do you need ro remove the artex ceilings which might be very expensive if it contains asbestos, it can xan be plastered over instead
For a family home you might be better having a downstairs toilet

You really need a background of building skills to take on a project like this because if the heavy work is going to be done by contractors then £100k plus is not unreasonable.
A lot depends on your finances if you are high earners and can spare £20k a year for 5 yrs you can live in it and work piecemeal. DIL did this over 10 yrs but hubby is a builder and had the skills and contacts.

Ok I'll give you a guesstimate (having renovated 7 houses in my time).

Assuming you don't discover anything dire like subsidence/rot/damp/roof issues then I think you could achieve a good finish for what you want at the £100k mark.

But that would rely on you being very organised, clear about what you wanted and being smart with sourcing goods and materials.

Realistically as I first timer I think you'll be lucky to come in at circa £130k.

And to add - source good contractors who are skilled and motivated.

Remember when getting bids that "someone" is much cheaper for a reason and it will bite you back.

I'd guess 100k too.

It really depends on what dated means and how essential it is that it's all done immediately. I'd prioritise windows and doors, electrics, boiler and then kitchen (so would want £25k absolute minimum but you could easily spend double depending what you want). I find the numbers on Mumsnet mind blowing as I live in a three bed house that wouldn't fetch the 150k people quote!

The rest could be done more piecemeal. It's only a utility room. If it's the old dated kitchen does it matter for a few years? Same with one of the bathrooms.

Similarly with artex ceilings. You could do a room a year because once you start, it's probably not just the ceiling but the skirtings, doors etc for all the internal joinery.

We initially painted over a lot of wallpaper (removing it often leads to replastering in this house!) just to make it liveable and have been slowly doing it but it's amazing how quickly you adapt to things and stop noticing!

@Amid @BlanketsBanned @BreadInCaptivity @Calmdown14 @Crazykatie

Thanks all 😊 I’ll try and answer the questions. I’m in Scotland so I have a survey to go on. Doesn’t appear to be any obvious issues with roof/rot etc - although I’m well aware these things can crop up. Windows were actually replaced about 15 years ago so they’re fine.
They don’t check for asbestos but given the age of the property I wouldn’t be surprised if there was. My thinking with removing the artex ceilings etc was that the whole electrics need redone and everything will need plastered anyway so it would perhaps be more cost efficient to do everything at once and have it plastered then.

More than happy to do things bit by bit - I don’t mind living in dated and making it a long term project.
There is a downstairs toilet already and it’s perfectly functional, just dated. We have 2 young children so replacing the upstairs shower room and putting in a bath is a priority for us. The downstairs bathroom can be done at a later date.

Also happy to do the utility & the lounge/kitchen/diner at a later date. Ideally, as a starting point we’d like to have the electrics, boiler, ceilings sorted, full house replaster, full new carpets, upstairs bathroom and a kitchen put into bedroom 1. We’d have £50k to work with. There’s no extra to play with. We can realistically save £10k a year going forward.

would happily leave in the old kitchen until we saved more to turn it into a utility, and would happily just have a kitchen/diner until we could knock through at a later date.

I think it’s a push too far for us but DH is convinced that we can easily afford it.

@Calmdown14 Some of the numbers on Mumsnet baffle me too but I literally have no idea when it comes to this. This property is valued at £230k. We’re in the most expensive town in our area but our part of the country is cheaper than lots of others!

I was going to say 75k.

Possibly the answer is "more than you could imagine".

Phasing it as you have outlined with £50k seems feasible to me.

But bear in mind living on a building site is not fun and frankly a phased build costs more in the long run than a full renovation in one go.

So it really comes down to how much this is the house for you.

Is it worth -to you - the time, money and inconvenience you'll have to live with to secure you're "future" dream house, because is going to be far from your dream home for quite some time.

I'd also add not to forget about renovation burnout. It's great when you start, but 3 years later it's really not fun anymore and that grotty bathroom/kitchen you thought you could live with becomes an object of hate.

As for your DH all I'll say is anyone thinking they can easily afford a big reno project is either a secret millionaire or has absolutely no idea what they are letting themselves in for....

That's not to say you shouldn't go for it - I was very "green" re: my first house but I started pretty small and learned as we traded up and it worked out well for me (mortgage free in a "for life" home before DH and I were 40) - but we made some expensive mistakes on the first few houses and got hit by issues that blew the budget due to inexperience. Thankfully we recovered due to rising prices, but it could have been very different,

new electrics 4-6k

new boiler 2-3k

l shower room striped out and replaced with 3 piece bathroom suite & tiled etc 7k

artex ceilings throughout that need removed
15k

everything replastered 5-7k

kitchen moved to “bedroom1 15k

kitchen turned into a utility 5k

carpets/vinyls replaced throughout 4-8k

painted & decorated throughout 2-4K

45-60k if your in a normal area in Scotland.

100k is very expensive

Depends on the finish you are after.

£15k isn't much if you want a large high spec kitchen diner.

For example you can easily spend that on appliances alone.

Could you do everything for less than £100k? - probably if you get good contractors and are savvy with your budget
and don't have a preference for high ticket items like agas/range cookers and big American fridge/freezers etc etc

But the cost of building materials is rising and if you are new to big projects then it's likely you'll over-spend.

@Mosaic123 That’s what I’m afraid of 😅 I’ve watched enough renovation shows to know that these things spiral and I’m well aware of building costs (like everything else) being sky high just now!

@BreadInCaptivity Thank you, I really appreciate all your advice 😊 DH is definitely a “pfffft, we can do that no problem....oh shit what have we done” type guy 🤣 he’s quite impulsive whereas I’m more cautious so we balance each other out I think 😅 Definitely doesn’t have a clue what he’s letting himself on for (and now you have me hoping that he’s a secret millionaire 🤣)
We had been saving to buy a bigger home and had saved a decent deposit then with the rising prices we made a great profit (we think!) on the sale of our first home. We decided a couple of months ago to take a leap and take advantage of the high prices, sell up and move into rented. We bought our flat 6 years ago for £110k and sold it for £165k this year having done no work except painting and new carpets 😳 I just know we’re not likely to have that kind of cash boost again, and I’m keen to use it wisely. I’m well aware that we’re also buying at the top of the market so buying a long term project that could be a genuine forever home feels less scary than buying a pristine smaller home at the top of our budget then realistically wanting out of it when the kids are a bit bigger and not being able to afford to because the market has gone down.
Our monthly income currently pays our rent etc but I’ve tried to be sensible and set aside enough out of savings etc to allow us to rent for an additional 6 months while paying a higher mortgage on a new house just incase we needed work done. Obviously the less time we’re in rented the better, but financially we do have the option to start the renovation while not living in the property.

@middleofthelittle Thats a really interesting breakdown!! The artex removal cost is huge 😳😬

Definitely don’t need anything flashy 😊 Just a nicely finished house that can be a long term family home for us. I grew up moving around small local authority houses and the thought of being in a position to own a place that my kids will know as their home and always be able to come back to is the absolute dream for me.

No problem.

I'm not suggesting you don't go for it.

I would (and did many times over). I'd always buy a "fixer" over a new/semi-new home. I like knowing I've done the work and that it's to a good standard. I also like not having to pay a premium for other peoples taste - yes it's a lovely kitchen that I can't justify ripping out, but it's not what I would have chosen....

But you need to be realistic. It's hard work mentally and physically and it will cost you more than you think.

Perhaps try a simple exercise. Take a small room like the downstairs toilet and guess how much it would cost to renovate.

Then open up a spreadsheet and list and research everything. The cost of the toilet, wash basin, taps etc you want. Cost of wall tiles or paint/paper/flooring. The cost of a towel holder, loo roll holder, new lighting. A mirror/cabinet. A picture/vase etc literally everything you would spend on that one small room.

Then add in labour - roughly £25 per hour
as a cross trade average (householdquotes.co.uk/tradesmen-labourer-costs/).

So a couple of days to take out old items and refit the new toilet and washbasin. Another two/three days if you want wall/floor tiling. Perhaps half a day if you only want simple splash-back for the washbasin and another half if you want lino flooring.

Add some more for plumbing if you need pipes moved. At least a day. If you want the lighting changed from a standard fitting to something more dramatic then maybe another day from an electrician (or at least add half a day anyway to cover pro-rata the re-wiring of the house).

Then tot up the total and compare to your estimate.

That will give you and your DH a reasonable start point of how realistic your "in head" estimates are to reality on a tiny room and the consequences of the same margins of error re: the whole house.

Definitely don’t need anything flashy 😊 Just a nicely finished house that can be a long term family home for us. I grew up moving around small local authority houses and the thought of being in a position to own a place that my kids will know as their home and always be able to come back to is the absolute dream for me.

Good for you 👍.

Top tips for kitchens.

Most people get carried away by the units and appliances. Don't do this, spend wisely.

Pretty basic units can be massively elevated by good quality hardware (handles etc) and good worktops.

In other words throw your money at worktops - granite or corian. Yes it's pricy but if it's a forever home it's worth it. They will last a lifetime unlike wooden or laminate worktops and you can easily replace unit doors in the future to update cupboards.

Statement taps look great and don't have to be expensive. Just scour eBay/Amazon and tbh paired with a good sink and worktop the assumption is it was expensive.

Appliances - built in is your friend. Who cares what the brand is if it's hidden behind a cupboard? So dishwashers/fridges/freezers buy good but basic brands.

Splash out on things that can be seen like your cooker/hob and sink (and worktop - I'll say this again).

You could always cover the ceilings instead taking them down? Much more cost effective and when I had my electrics done there was only a small amount of patching needed where the new light came through. Might be a cost saving if removing the ceilings are going to cost £££

I think all the work would be around 100k but if you have half already you can do the rest over time, you just need to work out what's most important to get done first.

I say buy the house, make it your family home. It will be worth it ❤️

I think it will massively depend on the spec you go for and how much work you are willing to do yourself.
We have just finished renovating an old 3 bed cottage which involved pretty much new electrics throughout, knocking down a wall to join the kitchen and dining room (which required 2 steels), brand new kitchen and appliances including a £1k range cooker, 2 new bathrooms, flagstone flooring in the kitchen and downstairs bathroom, laminate elsewhere downstairs and carpet upstairs, log burner installed, all rooms redecorated and we brought it in for about £20k. We did the majority of the work ourselves and we only had basic DIY skills. It's amazing what you can learn from watching a YouTube video on tiling! I was also a very savvy shopper and did as a previous poster suggested and got cheap kitchen units and elevated with a nice sink, cooker etc to make it look more expensive? Bought things in sales even if we didn't need it right then.
If we had paid people to do it all for us, I think we could have easily sunk £50k.

Depends if you're thinking about taking it on ASAP ( where right now you'll still struggle to even get contractors to quote) or in 18+ months time after recession has bit fully, the building trade has ground to a halt as it always does & material costs have plummeted. It could be a £50k+ difference.

We're in Scotland and recently had a wall knocked down, a door turned into window and a window turned into a door. Then a new wall and pocket door built elsewhere plus new kitchen, flooring and some electrical work. Decoration, new radiator, new appliances (not all, some)

Cost us £18,000.

Might help you plan?

It will cost at least 50% more than your highest estimate and take twice as long to compete as your most pessimistic nightmare. If you survive that it will be fantastic.

If you go for a second visit, have a closer look at skirtings, wall condition, doors etc.

What construction are the internal walls? Ours are all brick so wiring is fun!

A rewire is usually done by lifting floor boards above rather than bringing down all the ceilings. We brought down one which was hiding a lot of other services so made it easier but that was a false ceiling anyway. The other we plaster boarded over and had it skimmed with the walls.

It's cheaper if you are happy to deal with the separate trades.

There's also a balance between what is cost effective to do at once and what is better left. So really we need a new bedroom carpet. But really it needs new skirtings. And with brick walls if we do that it will need to be replastered .....so we've lived with the carpet we expected to change immediately for eight years. Have put up new wallpaper and cleaned the carpet, painted the skirtings etc so it looks okay. All this we can do ourselves so very limited cost and it's unrecognisable from the 1970s it was but at some point it will get done completely.

It sounds like you are reasonably happy with basic DIY so this makes a difference.

If you are on a limited budget you look at what can be salvaged as well as what needs ripping out immediately. On so many of these programmes they go crazy getting rid of absolutely everything and then way over budget putting it back.

You sound like you are happy to live with a bit dated which doesn't mean a permanent building site

Given all you've posted, at your stage of life, I'd do it.

your DH IS definitely being overly optimistic, and really needs bringing back to earth before you go ahead. It'll be a long term, on going, at times 'drag' that you need to be 'in it together' with a dose of reality to do.

personally I'd buy it & get in asap, every penny saved in rent can be spent on the house!

I would basically 'camp' in it for a while & really think about what changes you want to make & what the priorities are.

my first priority would be making a nice bedroom/playroom for the kids so they have somewhere you can send them to to retreat to. You'll get much more done if they gave a nice, sorted space to play in.

Best wishes getting it!!

I had several ceiling removed, replaced & it didn't cost anything like £15,000 and I'm
in the SE.

peoples experiences are different.

if it was me, if the mortgage was stress tested and in my comfort zone, I'd do it.

you sound incredibly sensible & not the dirt to lose all rational thought & buy a £25,000 gold tap!!

Around 100k easy