Tree preservation order

[ILoveMeSteakIDo]

Can anyone get a TPO on a tree if they don't own it?

There's a very large, beautiful tree in my neighbours garden, 2 doors down. I think it's a conifer tree, it's about as tall as a 2 story house. Our gardens are all about 80ft long, to put into context. My next door neighbour hates it as it casts too much shade, in his opinion. He still gets plenty of sun in his long garden, just not across the middle.

It has tons of birds in it and we see a lot of bats around it in the summer (urban garden so the bats were a lovely surprise when we moved in).

Every now and again he makes noises on social media about asking the neighbours to cut it down and moaning about the sunlight issue. On one such rant, someone linked him to some nails that you hammer into the trunk to kill it. I wouldn't put it past him.

I'm idly wondering if i could in theory get a TPO put on the tree due to the fact it seems to support a lot of wildlife, including bats. I know it wouldn't stop him doing something to the tree but he would be in for a fine if he did.

Does anyone know the process for doing so? Can it be done by someone who doesn't own the tree?

Bats prefer beech, oak or ash but will roost in any tree even conifers especially if it's got ivy or other additional cover

(www.bats.org.uk/about-bats/where-do-bats-live/bat-roosts/roosts-in-trees)
If bats do exist there and they are disturbed by work to a tree / building then the penalties are quite severe.

All trees in conservation areas are protected and require planning permission (which is free to apply for), however specific TPOs are less likely for conifers especially in a back garden as they are placed for special trees and usually have to be in a public setting (so front gardens or boundaries with parkland would count) as it's about whether it's in the public interest to protect not just because it's nice.
Although you have to apply for planning permission it is free and depending on what you want to do maintenance wise you don't necessarily have to pay for a report (sometimes you do it depends what needs doing)

There are plenty of varieties of conifer not just the dreaded leylandii and although they have a rep for being thirsty they aren't always a problem for roots

We have yew trees which we have built fairly close to and I was sure we were going to have to be clever with the foundations but the structural engineer said they aren't that big an issue. It really depends on the variety.

We have lots of trees (hundreds) in our garden both deciduous and coniferous and I would say that size of tree doesn't always mean it supports the most wildlife. We have a 30m high Lawson Cypress and bar some wood pigeons and a woodpecker it's generally much less well visited than smaller trees. If you are concerned about the loss of the tree and it's impact on wildlife then why not add some friendly trees to your own garden, fruiting / blossoming trees are good for both birds and bees and attract insects which will attract the bats looking for food.

Oh the suffering.

My heart is breaking for you, Imagine having fruit falling down on one's pristine freshly hoovered faux grass, or even leaves falling down. As for the shade? Oh horror.

Don't get me started on the birds and bats. They should all be rounded up and sent into exile somewhere.

How can anyone live with all that messy trees and nature when concrete is so much nicer?

Every tree in out street has TPOs
We always apply to the council first, once we get permission to trim etc then get a tree surgeon to do it. Doesnt cost anything to apply. Been here over 30 years and it's never been a problem
The local council also took out temporary TPOs in a neighbouring street to stop someone pulling down trees in gardens he had asked for planning permission to turn some gardens into an estate and had form for burning down houses etc It was amazing how many bats the neighbours had seen

Whether or not a TPO can be applied to the tree depends on the tree preservation policies of your local authority. You cannot just get a TPO applied to any tree in someone’s garden just because you like it, there are other considerations.

Go to your local council’s website and find their planning section. TPO stuff will usually be in there. If it doesn’t answer your question, just email the planning team.

Your poor neighbour who only wants to enjoy a bit of summer sun in their garden! No need for garden trees to be as tall as that. I’d say 4-6m max and then nobodies light amenity is affected. You seem to have take offence with some neutral comments OP so I’d warrant your one of those neighbours nursing a grudge for some minor slight and wanting to assert some petty power over your neighbour. Can you grow trees and block your own light instead? Gardening is a very relaxing hobby that’s much healthier than the road you’re about to go down. No council will put a too on somebodies 50 year old Christmas tree.

The trees in our gardens were here first before the estate which is full of mature oaks etc.
you dont like other peoples trees then dont move into a house next door to them.

@bruffin or, if you move into a house with a tree, care for it and maintain it. Spend the money to keep it pruned and heathy. Trees that get too big get diseased and damage homes. Many trees only have a 50-80 year lifespan before they start to die and become dangerous. Let’s keep some perspective here. The OPs motivations are petty against the neighbour, not protecting the heritage of oak trees (that also have problems with catapillers and disease if not maintained btw)

We do care for our trees and maintain them.

MN is utterly ludicrous about trees.

The trees must be attractive and look nice all year round but not block light or shed anything ever.

If your tree drops leaves into a neighbour’s garden, you must immediately go round and clear them up while offering wine and chocolates and then chop your tree down.

If your neighbour’s trees drop leaves in your garden, that’s just what trees do and you need to get a grip and stop trying to destroy all nature.

I think it's you who needs to educate yourself! 🤣 www.bats.org.uk/about-bats/where-do-bats-live/bat-roosts/roosts-in-trees

There’s some myths being repeated here on the granting of TPOs and the effect of what TPOs are. Agree with others that the council’s Tree preservation officer will be able to explain local tree policy and, it’s their job to report on and recommend TPOs if public nominate a tree for that. They can give you a good idea informally of whether a given tree would get one, it’s their job to look into it. So you’d be sensible to send some photos and a note of the nature importance of the specific tree/s in with your query about it.

But -no individual neighbours do not ‘get a TPO put on.’ That myth is the needless cause of neighbourhood disputes. It’s not something anyone can demand or buy and has to be justified by the council. The council put on TPOs. Anyone can (can absolutely should) draw the council’s attention to trees at risk but If the council tree preservation team disagree on the value of the tree/s they won’t put a TPO on. Value is defined and meeting the standard needs to be evidenced.
-no a TPO is not a reason not to maintain and care for a tree, and keep it safe for humans and property to be around which could mean taking it down completely, obviously
-yes conifers can be TPOd
-yes trees can be TPOd if they are felt to be beautiful, that’s part of what having ‘amenity value’ means, but they tend to need to be a public amenity ie to be capable of being seen by the public where they are sited.
-yes trees can be if the TPOd if they are in a back garden, some back garden trees are visible from the street or public areas nearby, or maybe are growing eg on a hill or in a valley site that makes them visible.
Excellent advice on TPOs here: www.woodlandtrust.org.uk/protecting-trees-and-woods/campaign-with-us/campaign-in-your-community/tree-preservation-orders/

I can’t even go there with people who deny the importance of trees. Presumably they have got access to a spare planet, not subject to climate change, that’s all ready and waiting to live in, just for them and their kids..?

We had leylandii near a property - caused subsidence, fortunately the insurance paid for underpinning and removal of trees. It was an old house with few foundations. Trees, 3 of them, were only about 10 years old if that.

You don’t need a d so specialist to advise on tree work any more that you would with a tree without a TPO.
Yes you need permission but it’s free and easy to apply for.
Trees are assessed on quality and the value of their contribution to the area so yes, “a nice” tree might cut it.
It all depends on the conifer.

Agree totally with @BeachwoodCafe .

Also agree that applying for works to a TPO tree shouldn't cost. The application is free. Just get a tree surgeon in to see what needs doing (as you would for any tree) and then apply for what they recommend. It is down to the Council tree officer to assess whether that would be harmful to the health, safety or amenity value if the tree.

Of course conifers can be TPOd. There are loads of different species of cine- bearing trees, not just leylandii. I agree it would be less likely for a leylandii to be TPOd, but have seen it, but what about Scots pines, Douglas firs, cedar trees, spruce, larch etc.?

You DO need an arbortorial report for our council - clearly stated on their webpage and on the planning application form for lopping/trimming a tree.

Never had to supply one for our council, We have oaks, scots pines and hawthorn all with tpos. Even had some removed.
We apply, council officer comes out. Tells us what we can do and then we get a tree surgeon to do the job to that spevification

What you have written is of interest to me. A couple of years ago my landlord built a new block of flats in the grounds of my block of flats. The contractors made a roadway out onto a small road past a sycamore tree that had a tree preservation order. I was angry because my landlord told me more than once that they weren't going to do that. They had access to the site from another road.

Anyway they killed the tree. On the first day the contractors were on site they cut lower branches off so they could get their lorries past. Then they drove heavy lorries including a cement mixer past the tree. We complained about it but nothing was done.

When I asked if a group of 3 poplars in the remaining grounds could have a TPO I was told no. Even though we have the Poplar Hawk Moth and bats. Woodpeckers come to these trees too. It seems to me that TPOs don't mean anything.

I'm at a loss as to why a sycamore tree has a TPO. They're everywhere and self seeding and a massive pain in the arse. They're considered aggressive weeds in some countries.

I’m have two sycamores bordering my property that have protection so I’m not sure you’re quite right there if I may say so @kirinm .

Thats a shocking story @SuePine73 . You could report this (anonymously or otherwise) to the council and it’s highly likely action will be taken. It won’t save your tree but may save a future tree!

When we bought our house one of the TPO trees had been removed and we got special indemnity insurance from the vendor in case the authorities took action in future.

I'm not suggesting they don't have TPOs. I'm at a loss as to why since they're such annoying trees! We have so many mature sycamores in and around our garden. Conservation area so we need planning permission to do anything with them but (thankfully) not TPO'd. We actually managed to get one felled since it was rotten and dying yet also capable of keeping both ours and our neighbours garden in the dark preventing anything other than sycamore offshoots from growing.

I agree that sycamores aren't worth preserving! It's a mystery why it got a TPO in the first place especially when you consider that I was told I can't get a TPO for this group of old poplars. Sycamores like limes can produce honeydew which coats everything below with a sticky surface.

I shall look at my old emails to see who it was that I was dealing with. I think it was somebody from the council. I think what he said was that the landlord has no plans to cut them down so there's not point in a TPO.

They did cut down another big poplar nearby, it wasn't where the new building was to be or even in the garden area of the new building. It took them 3 days to do it and we complained but they wouldn't stop. They never gave us a reason why they did it even though we asked.

When you consider that and the fact that they lied about the roadway I think I should try again to get a TPO for the poplars. How should I go about it?

@SuePine73
Read the thread! It says what to do! Local council policy. Read it.

For trees to have a TPO they have to have a public amenity value.
Normally the trees have to be good specimens in term of shape etc as well as healthy.
If trees are protected, consent will still be given for works which help keep it healthy and safe.
If trees are dead, dying or diseased and can't be saved consent will be given to remove them, but often it is a requirement to plant a new tree in its place.
If you want a tree considered for a TPO, contact the Council's tree officer.

The bat conservation trust doesn’t mention conifers for roosts and strongly suggests bats prefer woodland trees. I see bats around my house because they want insects. Here bat roosts are in woodland and some like oak trees. They fly around a conifer for food but it’s unlikely to be a roost if it’s an isolated tree in a garden. Conifers in gardens are not often suitable for TPOs as they don’t meet the criteria.

I have read this read from the beginning and the advice is contact your local Tree Preservation Officer. If you do that though your request for a TPO can be declined. As happened to me. So you need to know how to use the system before you make the request.

I have found an email I received in November 2018. It was from the Principal Planning Enforcement Officer for Wirral Borough Council. He wrote "Further to my email below, I visited the site with my colleague, Erik Bowman (Tree Preservation Officer) yesterday".

He spoke to the developer and contractor and they told him a bunch of lies. They said that they weren't going to put a temporary road in past the sycamore, it would be pedestrian only. They said that some deadwood had been removed from the sycamore. They removed healthy branches though to get their lorries past. Why would a contractor just decide to remove dead wood from one of the numerous trees?

This is the paragraph where my request for a TPO for the poplar trees was declined:-

"Whilst on site we paid particular attention to T2 and T4 in light of your request for a TPO to be placed on those trees. However, the Council does not consider it expedient to issue a TPO in relation to those trees because they do not make a significant contribution to the amenity of the area. The developer also confirmed that they have no intention to remove those trees."

There are 10 flats in my block of flats that look out on these poplars. They can also be seen from the path nearby. How could he say that they don't make 'a significant contribution to the amenity of the area'? Also, the contractors killed the sycamore (although it was only when it failed to produce leaves in the spring next year that we knew it was dead). And they cut down a big poplar even though it was outside the area of the new build and its garden. So 'they might have no intention' to remove these poplars but they could do it any time. They wouldn't tell anyone, they would just do it. They might even lie about their intentions, like they did before. I don't trust them.