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Anyone noticed the market has changed?

787 replies

yaxe · 16/06/2022 18:17

We are in the process of buying (have sold) & it was mad in March, lots of overbidding etc. I've noticed now reductions & stuff is staying on rather than going in a wk. It's making me a bit nervous tbh.

OP posts:
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7
Whycanineverever · 28/08/2022 08:18

@ShelfyMcShelfface

Not sure if they were referring to people moving from Hong Kong. We have a significant amount settling in our Borough which may or may not be related to the large increase in boba shops!

ShelfyMcShelfface · 28/08/2022 08:33

Whycanineverever · 28/08/2022 08:18

@ShelfyMcShelfface

Not sure if they were referring to people moving from Hong Kong. We have a significant amount settling in our Borough which may or may not be related to the large increase in boba shops!

She referred to London over the last 10 years, I assumed she meant Arabic shisha bars. Hopefully she'll come back and clarify 😀

rainingsnoring · 28/08/2022 08:48

@RunningSME 'Who are all these people who are going to be purchasing UK property as real wages fall ?
Who do you think has been buying up London for the past 10 years.

Where a bubble tea shop pops up, youll find vast sums of money in the local property market'

Most places have bubble tea shops nowadays. Are you suggesting that rich people from Hong Kong will be buying up all the UK property? Seems a little unlikely.

rainingsnoring · 28/08/2022 09:10

@Dasheen - of course people need a roof over their heads but that doesn't automatically mean that they can afford ever increasing prices. Indeed, in an environment with all the current factors, they clearly can't. People will make other adjustments like multi generational living more than one family living together, flat shares, not moving or buying a cheaper house than they fancied last year. I suspect that homelessness will rise as people lose their homes and end up on benefits.
If there is no 'demand' at current prices, the sellers and landlords will have to respond by lowering them. This 'free market' (which hasn't been a free market) works both ways. The demand vs supply isn't just related to the number of people vs the number of housing units (which the NIMBYs are currently objecting to, as you point out) but the monetary supply.
Sure, London and a couple of other large cities are a bit different because of huge foreign wealth. The government have positively encouraged dirty foreign money (and less dirty) into this country, selling off all our assets. They seem to have had a partial change of heart recently though.

MidnightMeltdown · 28/08/2022 12:10

@Headabovetheparakeet

I can't find the link now but I think it was in the telegraph. Said that a house price crash would mainly affect London and the south east.

I guess that makes sense as many people can work from home now and will be looking for cheaper areas. Most of the north is still very affordable by comparison.

There is also this in the express:

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1660274/house-price-crash-mapped-UK-forecast-map-recession-prediction-areas-London

MidnightMeltdown · 28/08/2022 12:21

@oiltrader

I think that you underestimate how much wealth there is in this country. The problem isn't lack of money, it's unequal distribution. Rents are rocketing and I imagine that any dip in house prices will mean that cash buyers (and perhaps bug businesses) hoover up properties to rent out.

It's been estimated that the living wage could rise by up to 20% over the next 2 years - and I bet that most of that will be going into rent. The system is broken.

I think it will affect the type of property that first time buyer can get. Almost everyone I know went straight into a 2 or 3 bedroom house with a garden. I wonder whether the cost of living crisis will increase demand for flats. These haven't been selling well at all in my area for a long time.

MidnightMeltdown · 28/08/2022 12:30

There is also the issue that the cost of building materials has rocketed over the past couple of years. Coupled with severe labour shortages, this means that building is well behind schedule, and it will grind to a halt if house prices fall.

I would like to upsize in 3 years time when my mortgage deal ends, and so a dip in house prices would help, but I don't see it happening.

Nat6999 · 28/08/2022 12:49

Prices around where I live look to have peaked & are dropping now, one house 3 bed ex council terraced in good repair went on at £140k 2 months ago, another exactly same layout but slightly bigger with a conservatory & in my opinion in a slightly better state of repair, decoration & better position as has room for off road parking (I think it has been bought & renovated) came on Rightmove on Friday £125k. Houses on this estate normally get offers accepted within days of going on sale as first time buyers & BTL landlords snap them up.

ShelfyMcShelfface · 28/08/2022 12:53

I wonder whether the cost of living crisis will increase demand for flats. These haven't been selling well at all in my area for a long time.

Good point. Free insulation from the neighbours, next door, upstairs and downstairs. May make detacheds less popular.

Dasheen · 28/08/2022 16:04

rainingsnoring · 28/08/2022 09:10

@Dasheen - of course people need a roof over their heads but that doesn't automatically mean that they can afford ever increasing prices. Indeed, in an environment with all the current factors, they clearly can't. People will make other adjustments like multi generational living more than one family living together, flat shares, not moving or buying a cheaper house than they fancied last year. I suspect that homelessness will rise as people lose their homes and end up on benefits.
If there is no 'demand' at current prices, the sellers and landlords will have to respond by lowering them. This 'free market' (which hasn't been a free market) works both ways. The demand vs supply isn't just related to the number of people vs the number of housing units (which the NIMBYs are currently objecting to, as you point out) but the monetary supply.
Sure, London and a couple of other large cities are a bit different because of huge foreign wealth. The government have positively encouraged dirty foreign money (and less dirty) into this country, selling off all our assets. They seem to have had a partial change of heart recently though.

You are talking theoretically. Fact is housing stock is limited. That is the basic fact. Start from there and you’ll see why house prices will always be on a long run trajectory despite blips here and there.

Let’s take your multigenerational example: space is needed for this to be possible, if not least because relationships will break if there isn’t enough living space to house these extra people. Oh but they will do extensions you say? Then what do you think will happen as these multigenerational family demand building works? How will that affect the price of houses?

The economic downturn is not being caused by a housing bubble. House prices will in the short term slow down and in some areas drop but it is completely contrary to historical evidence and to the actual fundamentals in this country to expect house prices will keep falling.

The sad reality is that the inequality in wealth will explode. Those with money will continue to buy houses and some will do so to rent.

It makes sense that the demand for flats will increase. I can see why that might happen. Not because people think they’ll be warmer but because it is now they are now more affordable after taking a hammering during Covid. Flats were not longer desirable then and their prices grew less rapidly.

ShelfyMcShelfface · 28/08/2022 17:06

It makes sense that the demand for flats will increase. I can see why that might happen. Not because people think they’ll be warmer but because it is now they are now more affordable after taking a hammering during Covid.

People who can afford cheaper flats but not more expensive houses won't be taking the lower cost of heating flats into account?

Dasheen · 28/08/2022 17:13

ShelfyMcShelfface · 28/08/2022 17:06

It makes sense that the demand for flats will increase. I can see why that might happen. Not because people think they’ll be warmer but because it is now they are now more affordable after taking a hammering during Covid.

People who can afford cheaper flats but not more expensive houses won't be taking the lower cost of heating flats into account?

When people buy houses or flats they will take a whole host of things into account. A piddling speculative gain in heating will at the very, very best affect the decision at the margins.

In any case, the gas crises will turn a corner from 2024. There will be some positive signs in late 2023 as more LNG becomes available. Yet another situation that’s very much supply driven at the moment. So a long term decision on a house or flat should not be based on some possible heat gain from other properties (who no doubt also be reducing their heating too).

rainingsnoring · 28/08/2022 18:43

@Dasheen 'You are talking theoretically. Fact is housing stock is limited. That is the basic fact. Start from there and you’ll see why house prices will always be on a long run trajectory despite blips here and there.

Let’s take your multigenerational example: space is needed for this to be possible, if not least because relationships will break if there isn’t enough living space to house these extra people. Oh but they will do extensions you say? Then what do you think will happen as these multigenerational family demand building works? How will that affect the price of houses?

The economic downturn is not being caused by a housing bubble. House prices will in the short term slow down and in some areas drop but it is completely contrary to historical evidence and to the actual fundamentals in this country to expect house prices will keep falling.

The sad reality is that the inequality in wealth will explode. Those with money will continue to buy houses and some will do so to rent'

I'm not talking theoretically. It's all very practical. I haven't said anything about extensions. There are lots of older people still living in large family houses who have space to house their adult children and grandchildren. I already see this fairly frequently at the poorer end of the spectrum. I am saying it will become more common. People will have to out up with it whether it is ideal or not. It is, in fact, very common in other countries where space is at a premium.
I'm not sure I see landlords hoovering up multiple properties. The government have been deliberately discouraging landlords and reducing their profits for a few years now. Rising interest rates will reduce them further. Rents have risen a lot in the last year and more but if people can't pay them they won't pay. They will presumably end up being evicted and the council will need to house them (in horribly conditions) at tax payer's expense. The rents will need to come down to affordable levels if people can no longer pay.
I can see that you are full persuaded that lack of housing stock is the main factor in creating demand. I am saying that it is not, access to money is.

'In any case, the gas crises will turn a corner from 2024. There will be some positive signs in late 2023 as more LNG becomes available. Yet another situation that’s very much supply driven at the moment'

This is the crux of the current 'crisis' which is not a temporary crisis but a long term trend. Sure the price of gas may come down as demand reduces because consumers cannot afford it. The underlying problem, however, is one of reduced supply and particularly reduced supply at affordable prices.

Dasheen · 28/08/2022 20:02

okay, there is nothing more I can say.

rainingsnoring · 28/08/2022 20:40

Dasheen · 28/08/2022 20:02

okay, there is nothing more I can say.

Ditto. Clearly we disagree!

DeadHouseBounce · 28/08/2022 22:45

You can smell the crash now, it is like the smell of coming rain after the heatwave, many many people up and down the country will be applauding like seals when it happens, and many years in the future people will write PHD`s on the stupidity of the UK sheep as they jumped into the bankers bonus bubble. Will we have a Clap The Crash with people banging pots and pans, or are people still too thick to see that cheaper property is the best thing by far for ordinary people?

ShelfyMcShelfface · 28/08/2022 23:22

DeadHouseBounce · 28/08/2022 22:45

You can smell the crash now, it is like the smell of coming rain after the heatwave, many many people up and down the country will be applauding like seals when it happens, and many years in the future people will write PHD`s on the stupidity of the UK sheep as they jumped into the bankers bonus bubble. Will we have a Clap The Crash with people banging pots and pans, or are people still too thick to see that cheaper property is the best thing by far for ordinary people?

Houses should be for homes, not an investment. We live in one of the richest countries on earth and everyone should be able to buy a decent place to live.

TooMuchToDoTooLittleInclination · 29/08/2022 00:16

CodeNamechange · 16/06/2022 22:48

I saw a great house Ill never see anything like it again within budget

What stopped you putting in an offer on it?

presuming it was in the price range you can afford & you want to move??

oiltrader · 29/08/2022 13:46

MidnightMeltdown · 28/08/2022 12:21

@oiltrader

I think that you underestimate how much wealth there is in this country. The problem isn't lack of money, it's unequal distribution. Rents are rocketing and I imagine that any dip in house prices will mean that cash buyers (and perhaps bug businesses) hoover up properties to rent out.

It's been estimated that the living wage could rise by up to 20% over the next 2 years - and I bet that most of that will be going into rent. The system is broken.

I think it will affect the type of property that first time buyer can get. Almost everyone I know went straight into a 2 or 3 bedroom house with a garden. I wonder whether the cost of living crisis will increase demand for flats. These haven't been selling well at all in my area for a long time.

credit is not wealth. this is BASIC stuff.. house prices are only linked to supply of credit. While there is a demand for houses as in people want a nice big house, supply or lack of supply of credit will not allow them to satisfy their demand.

EmpressoftheMundane · 29/08/2022 14:35

@MidnightMeltdown We are barely in the top 25 richest countries and our moment and trajectory is downwards. We have been falling behind in productivity since 2008.

We could be more equal, but the bigger problem is a shrinking pie.

The energy crisis is going to make this much worse. We have no storage capacity for gas. We have no national debate on nuclear or even a barrage on the Severn.

If we don't get some pragmatic, rational leadership soon, things will get much worse. Can't see it from any of the parties.

ShelfyMcShelfface · 29/08/2022 14:35

As I said before, demand in my popular area of Manchester has dropped substantially. Demand dropping off has coincided with interest rate rises and cost of living rises. Houses still selling but no more best and finals.

EmpressoftheMundane · 29/08/2022 14:35

Everyone always asks for a link, so he is a graphic!

Anyone noticed the market has changed?
hanxsy · 29/08/2022 14:47

It's amazing how Ireland is doing so much better than the U.K.

oiltrader · 29/08/2022 14:51

hanxsy · 29/08/2022 14:47

It's amazing how Ireland is doing so much better than the U.K.

dont let the GDP fool you... foreign tech companies washing profits

There is a housing crisis in ireland

hanxsy · 29/08/2022 14:55

There is a housing crisis in ireland

I know that