Extensions experts - assemble!! aka - I really could do with some advice...

[SpidersAreShitheads]

HI all,

I was going to post this on the extensions thread but thought it might be better seen here.

We're (hopefully!!!) about to finally complete on a property which needs immediate building work - we're extending to create an annexe for DM and also extending to create a single storey extension for us (living room/kitchen/diner/study/downstairs bathroom all being reconfigured/created).

When we originally got the builders round to look, they were estimating about £100k roughly. That's now gone up to £125k (was £135k but we have managed to drop it by agreeing to pay contractors directly to save VAT, changing sky lights plus there was a miscalculation over steels needed).

That £125k doesn't include flooring, the new kitchens (x2), new bathrooms (x2), new boilers (x2) or heating (for downstairs main house or annexe).........gulp. Or any of the finishing bits like plugs/switches etc.

We're just hammering out the last details of finance but can probably go to £130k (at a stretch) but that's it.

There are some things we could leave out for now if we have to (ie/one of the kitchens and one of the bathrooms). There is an old, decrepit kitchen in the main house that we can make do with in the short term so it's only the annexe that needs a small kitchen installed. Same with the bathroom - DM needs a bathroom in the annexe, we can make do with the old, knackered bathroom upstairs in the main house for a little while, the downstairs one would be an addition.

Where else can I save money?I can paint and do basic stuff like that but when it comes to anything requiring actual skill, I'm absolutely rubbish. I can share the extension plans if it would help. Just looking for any killer money-saving ideas - please.......I'd be eternally grateful as I'm making my brain hurt going round in circles with this.

I had an extension 6 months ago, people say have at least 10% contingency for unexpected build costs.. and from my experience that's conservative! That £5k I can almost guarantee will go on the build, if budgets are that tight then you can't afford it right now. Unexpected issues we had included underpinning required on part of existing foundations where the new and old buildings meet, floor joists all needed replacing on old part of dining room, extra steels that architect hadn't accounted for on plans, to name a few.

In terms of cost savings, get things in sales as you see them. Buy ex display kitchen/bathroom or keep eye out on Facebook market place for second hand kitchen/bathroom.. you'll be surprised how many decent ones go on there!

Tiling is surprisingly easy to do if you go for something basic... spend £50 on a tile cutter and watch some YouTube videos... I've saved at least a grand doing this! I'm a perfectionist so it took me ages but I've done a bloody good job!!

Good luck op!

you say you don’t have any building skills. The biggest cost in building work is usually labour. Talk to the builder to see if there are any jobs that you can do ( moving stuff, filling skips, cleaning up, ripping out ? ) It’s surprising how much time is used on things like this. You might also learn a thing or two as well.

But make sure if you/ partner are working then something is coming off the bill !

its worth asking if you need to cut the costs ?

I think you are genuinely going to struggle with that budget - the more extensive the build (and £135/125k sounds quite extensive) the more likely you are to go over budget. We did a similar sized build and went over by about 15% (and thats not on "nice to have" add-ons, it was "we've discovered this and there's no way around it" expenses. I would say all of your £130k will go to the builder - and then some. I would say its highly unlikley you'll come in, just on the building works, at £130k.

As for the rest, can only echo what a previous poster said. Look at FB Marketplace, retail return sellers, discount trade warehouses / end of line reductions. Even then though, you're obviously going to need heating and some sort of flooring so you need to be looking at where the money to pay for those items will come from. There is only so much you can put off - as you say, you can make do with old kitchen / bathroom in the house if necessary, but you will definitely need heating, and then essentials for the annexe.

Can I please see your plans?

I'm planning an extension with a similar budget, not much extending but lots of knocking around.

Our architect has said that his most recent builds have come back 30% more expensive than estimated due to difficulty getting hold of materials and general price increases.

@SpidersAreShitheads good luck with your plans. It looks like you are planning tax evasion (saving VAT by paying contractors directly), but maybe I’ve got this wrong?

Anyways, i just came in to say that I don’t think you’ve got enough budget. You will be left with an unusable shell.

OMG - is it tax evasion @Yellownotblue ?!! It was something the builder suggested as a possible but said he would need to clear with his accountant first. The building company are obviously VAT registered so he said if I contract with the workers directly and take on all responsibility for making payment to them, then it's legitimate and OK? I'm not looking to do anything illegal and the builder said he'd have to check with his accountant first but as none of the labour are their employees, but just outside contractors, there's nothing to stop me doing that without breaking the law?

It's like the electrician. If I use the electrician through them, then I'll be charged VAT. As it happens - and completely unrelated to the VAT issue - a very close friend's husband is an electrician and I'd prefer to use him. My builder said I can use any of my own contractors/builders if I prefer and he's happy to work alongside whoever needed. My friend's husband's turnover is below the VAT threshold so I don't have to pay him VAT. So that's entirely above board and my decision to use him is unrelated to avoiding VAT (my DC are autistic and my friend's DC are also autistic so electrician husband understands our needs and difficulties).

I'm speaking to my builder tomorrow so will double check. I don't want to do anything dodgy or illegal!! Does it sound like an illegal situation to you?? I am totally and completely new to all of this so I had no idea this could potentially be considered as tax evasion!!!!!!!

Sorry got side tracked with the tax evasion question which came as a bit of a shock!!

The house we're buying has an extension to the side already - we're making that a bit bigger and then separating it off from the main house. It needs a new roof and the flooring needs to be lifted by around a foot or so, because the bedroom is higher and not accessible to my DM due to her mobility issues. She only wants a small kitchen, but that needs to be added in.

We're then extending the main house downstairs by about 15ft (25ft wide). This involves knocking through two main exterior walls (which have steels = expensive). The plan was to create an open plan area for kitchen/living room/dining room. Then a separate study/utility/bathroom. The study will also work as a separate snug - my DC are both autistic and my DS especially has quite high needs so a separate room for me to sit with him in will be essential. The current space in the main house isn't big enough to manage DS's sensory issues so part of the reason to extend is to accommodate that, plus while we're doing that we're also trying to future proof it too for all of us!

What hasn't helped is the fact that our architect has been a bit of a useless arse. I'm really quite pissed off with them. They put in these HUUUGE sky lights which aren't practical as we're south facing and also are really expensive. Our builder couldn't understand why they had put such big ones in. We've changed these - we're still having skylights but the cost will be circa £2k rather than the £13k in the quote so that's £11k knocked off. The steels are quoted wrong, so that's another couple of grand off. I've got a friend's husband doing the electrics so that should be cheaper than the £4.5k quoted too.

I've just had a bit of a brainwave and googling I've discovered there are VAT exemptions for certain types of building work. That won't apply to everything we're doing but will apply to some of it (DM has cerebral palsy and my DS is also disabled with high needs, including personal care).

As long as we can more or less get the annexe finished, it's OK if some of the main house is left unfinished. If the walls and roof are all up I can live without moving the kitchen for a while, and we can stick cheap matting on the floor and wear slippers while we save for proper flooring. But heating obvs is an essential.

I reckon I could do the tiling. That's a good idea, thank you! In the past I have fitted laminate flooring. Not saying it was perfect but it was passable and didn't look terrible! I am happy to get my hands dirty. I'm not sure how happy my builder is for me/us to do any of the grunt work though.....I suggested that we dismantle the old conservatory (would save £1800) and he didn't seem too keen on the idea. I imagine plastering is a bit too tricky for a novice to do without it looking utterly shit, right?? I want to save money on the bits where it's viable without making it look like a total pig's ear.....!

Of course @Modestandatinybitsexy - this is the floor plan our architect drew up.

I'm happy to give you more info/details if you want to pm me?

It would be so disappointing not to get the planned extension but it does sound like you just can't afford it. It extends 15' out but you're losing around 7 feet or so on the study and entrance. Both of these are going to be corridors.The study has a door at either end and is the only access to the annexe. How much would reducing the extension to bring it in line with the annexe save? How much would you save by not having the original back wall removed and instead have doors replacing the existing rear windows? In the long run, you may be glad of smaller,separate rooms,to save on heating costs and to give you separate places to sit.

1, You could use the whole left hand side of existing house,(study & utility on your plan) right up to the existing back wall,as a kitchen -diner. Put TV in it. This would let you have the right hand side of house and any extension as a proper separate,quiet sitting room(s). Place the future wet-room opposite the front door. Get the pipework put in but use it as a cloakroom or wc pending saving up /getting a grant to turn it into a wet-room. Or even just earmark the space but don't partition it off yet. Save up for future garden room to use as quiet/study room . Set up bedroom as a bedsitter where you could sit with child.

2, Alternatively, put the wet-room space or small study at the back of left hand side of existing house,with kitchen/diner in front.Use whole right hand side as living room with only a door (replacing existing window) leading out to a cheaper extension.
3.Look carefully at VAT relief . The rules are restrictive but your mum may be entitled to VAT rebate on having heating installed. She'd have to be the one instructing and paying for the installation. I think she'd have to be living in the annexe before she could get VAT relief,and possibly grant aid, on replacing an ordinary shower room with a wet room.
.4. Energy companies have grants and deals on supply and installation of new boilers or heating systems - e.g. 0% finance for 4 years on new boiler installation . Grants are available if you are in receipt of certain benefits - e.g. DLA or PIP and household income is below a certain amount.

,5, Ideally,you would raise the floor level in the annexe but it would be cheaper to build in a ramp. I appreciate this may be the last thing you would dream of economising on.

On the VAT point, find smaller contractors who aren’t VAT-registered. They’re then self employed and responsible for their own taxes.

Cash in hand to a plasterer who works privately on weekends isn’t going to tank the economy.

Shop around for bargains. Always push on quotes, especially where you’re buying larger quantities. I had no qualms asking for trade discount despite not being trade. Also, use your builders discounts at places like Selco.

Good luck!

And keep meticulous records of what you spend every week!! I didn’t do this… I started with a meticulously planned budget of £300k. I think I probably spent around £370k, but I don’t actually know for sure and it would take too long to work out now 🤦🏼‍♀️

how many doors / windows are new? can you reuse the existing ones? do you need two new doors to the garden from the annex?

look at IKEA kitchens - for the annex, you can get a mini kitchen on a tight budget.

I think @ItsDinah is spot on. Here’s an idea (apologies for my terrible drawing skills, I can’t find my Apple Pencil!) to get you started. I haven’t redrawn the annexe but I think you could also rejig the space in there to make more efficient use of it. Perhaps even take some of the room in the annexe for a den/larger study.

Am I right to understand that your proposed extension is roughly 375 square feet/34 square metres? If so, it’s quite substantial and I really doubt you can get it built within your budget, plus redoing existing rooms as well. If you find builders willing to do it at that price, you may find that there are quality issues or that they prioritise other projects that are earning them more. Then again, I’m in London so maybe you’re in a less expensive area?

Every square metre that you can shave off your proposed extension, will save you many thousands. So it is worth making sure that you make the absolute best use of the space you have.

I think the budget is very conservative indeed even if you do some of the finishing work like painting yourself. Do check that if your builder is using your sub-contractors like electricians, he isn’t going to charge a fee for every little request they make and that it’s clear who is responsible at all times.
Knowing what I know now, I wouldn’t start a build in this climate without 25% contingency.

The problem with paying 'cash in hand' to avoid VAT also means the contractor has very little responsibility to you if something goes wrong, you could get royally screwed. In fact, if you are borrowing to do the work, I don't think you bank will allow you do that.

Have seen it happen to a friend who paid like that to try to keep costs down and the contractor left the job unfinished and she had no recourse, as there was no legal contract. Contractor told her he needed more money to finish the job and even when she agreed he still never came back, it was then difficult for her to find another contractor to finish a job started by someone else, the new contractor kept finding issues with the work the previous contractor had done, it was a long nightmare for them and ended up costing them a huge amount financially and emotionally.

Hmmm then I wasn’t about money ( vat or no vat ) , if he asked for more money and she agreed to pay it. He obviously didn’t want to finish the job full stop.

The reason so many jobs go over budget is because it’s impossible to put an exact figure on everything that will need doing and the price of every bit of the build , It’s just a best guess really, the bigger the project the more of a guess it becomes. But I suppose you have to start somewhere and go from that.

@Diyextension , I think @themessygarden ’s point is that cash in hand builders are more likely to be unreliable, leave a job unfinished or to do a poor quality job, leaving you with no recourse because there’s no contract. So it can be a false saving and lead to a lot more stress.

I think you have bigger issues than just budget. I'm not convinced that this extension gives you what you say you need for your DC. The study/snug isn't very usable due to the corridor effect. Have you worked out what furniture you need in there and where it will go? How will it work as a safe space for DC if there's a door to the annex? The open plan living area might be awkward to arrange to make the best use of space - the windows/doors along the back are lovely, but will they make it harder to position sofas/tv for example.

Like others, I think you'll struggle with so little contingency. However, the roof lights will be a lot of money. Can you leave those out for now but construct the roof so they can be added later? The knock on effect to roofing costs should also save a little.
Re the tax evasion. Paying non-VAT registered trades direct is not tax evasion but your OP kind of suggested that you planned to pay the builder in a way to avoid VAT, which would be.

Not really ...... as you can imagine there was a lot of angst trying to get him to finish within the quote, he added the extra costs as a red herring, he was on to the next job already.

Hello - thank you all so much for replying! It's been a bit manic here trying to sort out a few hiccups while working full time and get this planned out in my head too!

I'm going to attach an image which shows the current layout of the house which might explain things.

A few answers:

The two walls in the main house are damp so that was another reason for removing them. But I also like open plan - I spend a long time in the kitchen and quite often I feel stuck away on my own.

The snug/study is actually the current kitchen - it doesn't feel like a corridor and it's a good size, while also not being too big. I don't need it for a "safe" space exactly - it's more than DS gets sensitive to noise or just struggles to deal with everyone (his twin sister and DP primarily) so a small snug area we could go and sit quietly in together which doubles up as a study during the day for DP's work is what we need.

DM has cerebral palsy - she won't be coming into our side of the house too often, other than when I cook dinner for everyone. It's more likely that we'll be popping to see her. So there's no worries re the snug being a busy traffic corridor.

We considered building a ramp in the annexe but a) it took too much floor space to run up to it and b) it leaves a lip on the floor which would be a tripping hazard for DM. With her cerebral palsy she falls over the tiniest thing that's uneven!

DM is adamant she doesn't want more space in the annexe. The bathroom is actually quite big and she only needs a shower cubicle, not a bath so she's going to get her washing machine/dryer installed in there. DM struggles with big open spaces so she's quite happy with the dimensions of the annexe as per the plans.

If you can see a red diagonal line in the drawing - that's the fence which cuts across the left hand side before straightening. That's the reason the annexe is a weird shape!

No, I'm not in London any more - much cheaper part of the country, thankfully (Gloucestershire).

Without VAT and removing the cost for the roof lights, the cost was £104k. Obviously the VAT hefts on a big chunk (£124k) but I think some of the VAT could be reduced because both DS and DM are disabled and certain types of work are VAT-exempt. If we are allowed to pay the labour costs directly then we'll save some more on the VAT there. And I think there's a couple of thousand due to come off the price because the steels aren't quoted right.

We're not borrowing to pay for this - it's the equity from the sale of DM and my house. We're getting my house ready to sell now - if it goes for a decent amount then we MIGHT have closer to £135k or at a push £140k to spend on the extension. MAYBE. If everything falls in our favour!!! I think realistically it's more likely to be £130-135k.

I think I've answered all the questions!!

Forgot to add the image of the existing layout!!!

Ok OP, good luck with your project! Just try and remember that virtually everyone on this thread has said your budget isn’t right and/or the plans aren’t right. You really need to be careful that you don’t jump in a project this big that you won’t have the resources to finish, or where the end result won’t meet your needs.

@Yellownotblue I agree with you and everyone on this thread about the budget - I'm really concerned about it, especially with the likelihood of it going over budget.

I "think" the layout is OK. DM is really happy with the annexe layout and doesn't want it enlarged or changed at all. There is actually a really huge side garden which would be her garden (we have the back garden) so she could have extended to the side but she really really doesn't want to, and just wants a small back extension so that's that haha.

Re the main house - I like the size of the study/snug - and that means we don't need to change that wall which saves money. We won't be going in and out of DM's annexe a lot and it's a nice, bright space. The rest of the layout for the main house I'm not 100% on. I want a utility room with space for a pantry, plus a shower room and a kitchen diner but I'm not 100% sure if the layout for these is the best. The architect was truly truly awful so I have zero faith in what they've produced. I talked to DP again last night and he is adamant about it all being open plan.