Builder requesting more money

[Dreambow]

Hi,
Really need some advice.
We are having a house renovation and are doing floor by floor. We started on the top floor. It’s a four-storey Victorian property in Southeast London. The work started in December last year and we have agreed a price for stage. The second floor and a First floor have been completed. We were originally supposed to finish these two floors by February but it has only just been completed. There is still a snag list to complete. He has also done some extra work such as a few extra plug points, put in some ceiling roses and helped with lighting in the IKEA wardrobes for which he said he will not charge us but does remind us of this.

The ground floor and basement quote is approximately 131k. We have paid a significant amount (93K) and we were supposed to finish this work in April however this is still ongoing. We had a contract with a payment schedule. However the payment schedule is time related rather than related to the works (even though we pushed for a works related one). This makes it very difficult as the project is currently running behind.

The builder has been friendly to work with throughout the project. Since starting the basement/ ground floor, work has slowed down which is what I’m worried about. He did ask for a large amount of money upfront for the steels and materials which we gave in February. He then came back a few weeks later and said steels have gone up 25%. When doing the steelwork in the basement we wanted the steels pushed up quite high which involves cutting the joists and he implied he would add this in. He says that he will do it for us because we’re friends. We don’t mind spending an additional cost for this.

For the past three Fridays he has been asking for more money. This has been difficult because we don’t have the money to give him and we feel uncomfortable until more work has been progressed. The amount of work to do is quite significant as he needs to finish putting steels in, put in ceilings/ lighting/ skirting/electrics, erect walls, flooring, damp proof, plaster, tile the basement. He also needs to put stairs in ground floor to basement, tile, put down flooring, plaster walls, finish electrics and lighting on ground floor. He is also going to be doing the front drive, patio the garden, complete panelling of hallways/ stairs as part of the works. We will be doing painting separately.

Three Fridays ago my partner transferred 5k and said he didn’t have any more money and then last Friday he asked for more money and my partner transferred another 5k. My partner explained that we will not give him any more money until all the steels are in. Our builder sent an email yesterday demanding a significant amount of money including of around 26K. 16k were part of a payment schedule. He also says he has overspent by 30k in this email…

I feel uncomfortable paying this as we have not progressed much further with the basement and we have already paid quite fairly and given him a large amount of money. He has also written around £20k worth of extras of which he has asked for half and he said he will absorb the other half. The extras have come as a bit of a shock as I wasn’t expecting this and I really didn’t expect to be sent an email on Friday morning. He implied he needed the money to pay the workers that day. I have gone back and questioned the extras.

He said the extras were for removal of rubbish mainly from the basement as they have bought some walls down. However they are not digging out the basement. On his contract he has quoted £1500 for removal of rubbish however now he’s saying he needs another 7500 which is hugely over the original quote. He is getting a man and van to remove when we previously suggested skips. He is saying 4k is for the extra 25% in steels and 8k is for extra labour steel costs. I have asked him for receipts/ the contact details of the steel guy and I think he is quite cagey with what he has replied back as he said he can’t just give me the steel guy number but I can speak to him on loudspeaker on the phone.

He says he has spent all the money we have given him. He is saying he cannot complete the work until we pay him. He knows our budget is tight as we didn’t know whether to go ahead with basement/ ground floor project to begin with but he said he would make it work previously. He has been very friendly throughout, brought presents when we had a baby etc. The cynical side of me questions whether is is overly friendly for a reason. My partner thinks he is a nice guy and everything is just costing more and he is passing it to us.

Thank you for reading this :)
What do we do? This is causing us so much stress.

Quotes are legally binding. He cant ask for extra.

Estimates can change.

Remind him that quotes are legally binding, and given the percentage you have paid compared to how much work he has done, he should be further along.Tell him you are not funding the delays, you will pay the legally binding quote in your contract but the payments will be made in line with the payment dates in the contract, minue the extra you have given him so far. The work must be finished in a timely manner etc.

He's trying to rip you off left right and centre. 7,500 for rubbish removal is insane! You've paid almost 100k and he hasn't even started the downstairs properly. 🥺

His original quote is legally binding. Tell him that and say you are not paying another penny until he provides receipts for the steel and also written proof of all these additional costs. Is he a member of FMB? They have a mediation service that might come in useful.

The fact he's not using skips is a red flag too. That would cost hundreds rather than thousands.

Oh dear. Timing schedule is pointless. Don't pay another penny. Be prepared he may walk away. He is going to fleece you if you keep paying him. Tell him you will sort removal if rubbish if needed etc. Also you will source steels. I would get a quote from somewhere you can give him. He is lying. You are not friends he is just being very sneaky.

Yes, as above, do you have a quote or an estimate for the work?

The price of materials is going through the roof so the builder is likely to be out of pocket. He's probably not lying about that

But in that case, he could show the original itemized quote, then show the current prices for materials and actually discuss the rise in costs and alter the quote to cover that but nothing else. Whereas, he is working slowly and simply demanding more money without showing receipts and there is no end in site so these demands for money are going to keep coming and before you know it, she'll have paid £50/60 thousand more than originally quoted.

Price rises were predicted months ago. He should have ordered the materials back when the work started and stored them on site.

A builder did similar to us during an extension but he didn't ask for extra he just asked for so much each week we had paid in full before the build was compete. We were naive. To cut a very long story short it emerged he had been using our money to pay debts with suppliers and rather than buy materials for our job and then ran out of credit. We had his workmen around the house for a few weeks doing nothing much as they had no materials and then they disappeared ball together. We had to get a solicitor and go into mediation to get him to return which cost both sides thousands. He knew he would lose as we had so much evidence of his dishonesty. The job was completed but poorly and we have had to have remedial work to fix lots of issues.

EvilEdna1 That sounds horrendous. How on earth did you stay civil when he came back after the mediation??

There’s is a significant risk the builder is in financial difficulties and is running a number of projects simultaneously to obtain a cash flow. He is highly likely to have used your money to fund these other projects and has no funds left to finish your build.

So

-remind him you have agreed to a fixed price and refuse to pay another penny until the works have reached the stage you expect.
-say any additional costs incurred were not agreed in advance with you and you are not liable to pay them
-get him to agree to a timeline to finish the works you have paid for. If he seek legal advice immediately on reclaiming your money

In the meantime it’s time to do some due diligence on his finances:

Go on Companies House website

www.gov.uk/get-information-about-a-company

and check the company accounts

Is he/the company trading at a loss? Are there legal charges on the company?

What is the legal structure of the company?
Is he a sole trader (and personally liable for all debts) or a limited company (with no personal responsibility for the company’s debts provided he hasn’t traded recklessly).

Check if he’s personally bankrupt or has an insolvency agreement against him

www.gov.uk/search-bankruptcy-insolvency-register

Get his home address and download the deeds from the Land Registry website

landregistry-deeds.co.uk/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0ua43YSC-AIVAuvtCh0KxQolEAAYAiAAEgIKpvD_BwE

other than a mortgage does he have any charges registered on his home?

It is important to have this info to hand so you can determine whether he ir the company has any assets and if (worst case) it’s worth suing him.

Hey,
Thank you so much everyone. I can’t believe that I am that person when I am writing this post. I really wish I had overseen more of this…

So the worst thing is that I just found out that we don’t actually stupidly have a contract. I left this with my partner as he was dealing with this and and now I really wish that I had overseen all of this more closely. He has a contract for the first set of work but not for the rest. I feel so sick with stress with this. We have a cost list from his company stating the list of different works to be done carried and the price for each. It says quotation on the top of this piece of paper. We also have lots of emails and WhatsApp messages stating we will go ahead with that price. Does this mean that there is nothing legally binding? I feel so sick with stress. My partner is saying the emails/ WhatsApps are proof but I don’t think we have a leg to stand on??

@Youaremysunshine14 I just checked and he is not a member of the FMB. I think not using skips are a massive red flag. Do you by any chance know how much removal of rubbish is for a typical house renovation with skips approximately is?

@Morechocmorechoc I agree that a timing schedule is completely pointless and I wish I had pushed for a works related one. My gut feeling is that he is being sneaky as he is so overly friendly but my partner just keeps saying I should have more trust. This is causing so much stress on our relationship.

@BeforeGodAndAllTheFish Thank you - yes I think most of the materials should have been brought in feb given we gave him so much money. 40k was also sent to an offshore account which is the profit I assume but that should have been used to buy materials. The builder is saying he used all this but I think it’s BS.
You are describing everything that his happening - work has slowed and we are paying him more and more and not seeing much progress….
I am not sure how we can get out of this situation?

@HogInAManger Thank you - I checked the company details and the account has like 2k in it. Furthermore he is linked to two other previous companies and one has been dissolved and one into liquidation. I presume these are warning signs?

@EvilEdna1 that sounds horrendous. I am sorry you had to go through that have have so many problems afterwards. Did you have a contract?

Any advise would be so helpful 🙏🙏🙏 I am sick with worry. We have just had a baby and I am on maternity leave and feel like I can’t enjoy any of this special time. It’s put so much stress on us financially and on our relationship. I can’t sleep and I am having nightmares. I just don’t know what to do :(

You're being fucked and the problem is your boyfriend refuses to accept he's being fucked

He should read about sunk costs fallacy - he's going to keep pouring more money in hoping that it will work out.

You've paid an extra £10k over the last two weeks for nothing

What is the amount you have left to pay for the job to be fully completed?

I wouldn't pay one more penny - the builders not going to finish, you ARE going to need to hire someone else

Cut your losses and get someone else round to quote for finishing

I suspect from what you've said there's £75k of work still to do ...

Don't pay another penny. Take him to court. Get in another building company to complete work.

Don’t be too hard on yourselves. Your builder is an accomplished con man. Many are. The industry is poorly regulated and there are few legal protections, as civil litigation is so expensive.

The fact you have no written contract isn’t a massive bar to litigation. You must now print off copies of all texts, emails and letters discussing the work as this forms your contract.

Suggest acting as follow:

1. Don’t pay another penny.
2. See a solicitor first thing Monday & send the builder a letter before action setting out what you have paid, what this is for, what has been delivered , and what is paid for but not delivered. Demand return of the money for works paid for but not delivered.
3. Before suing you must check if there is a realistic prospect of getting any money back as issuing court proceedings could be very expensive (legal costs plus court fee - £455 if claiming 5-10k, 5% of the claim if higher).
4. You have established he has very little money in the company. Using the links I sent previously find out if he is bankrupt or has arrangements with creditors. If he does your claim will be behind theirs and you will get nothing so it’s not worth suing. Find out if he owns a house. If so and there are no charges on it (other than a mortgage) you can put a charge on if you win your case so it is worth suing.
5. Remember to sue the builder personally as well as the company (which he is likely to dissolve to avoid paying you as he has probably done previously).
6. This is not nice but if all else fails consider reporting the builder anonymously to HMRC for tax avoidance (use of offshore account) www.gov.uk/report-tax-fraud Also leave honest reviews online and consider going to the press.

Good luck

Yes we had a contract. He had not a leg to stand on but that didn't stop him costing us so much in legal fees.

I'm so sorry OP. Your update is even worse. Your partner needs to get his hand out of the sand and accepted you're being screwed. He's more of a problem right now than your builder! Tomorrow you need to get legal advice – Citizens Advice or Trading Standards are worth a shot.

In the meantime, tell the builder you're not paying another penny and you're getting legal advice, because you believe he's taken ££££s from you and has not spent it on your project.

And in answer to your skip question, the licence from the council to have it outside our house was £85 and the skip itself cost a few hundred for a 16-week renovation. Nowhere near 7.5k. 😔

Have you paid from your bank account to his or have you paid some other way/in cash? You need to go tough on him and present him with what you’ve paid, the entire trail of communication about the ground floors and a firm indication that you will need to take “further action” if work doesn’t resume. He is relying on you seeing him as a nice guy so stop that asap.
Do you have a schedule saying what you buy and what he buys as part of the price? For instance he may be buying steels (and that means absorbing price increases unless specified) and you might be buying doors and windows, or whatever? If so, stick to it.
If all that fails, sadly you need to issue him with a legal letter and be prepared to go to court. They will walk off site so make sure that any of your material purchased for your job is secured.
I almost hired a builder who had multiple companies and was now trading in a company his daughter fronts. It’s extremely common.

well a large skip is about 600 ish and its huge....you can check prices for some materials if you look at Selco building supplies....add vat to the listed prices...some items have gone up but not all and many by just a little....a lot of the basics such as sand and cement are up by about only 40p a bag. get tough and talk to him.

Hi,
Thanks for the replies and advice. My partner and I are having huge arguments as he still thinks the builder is a nice guy. I have calculated that the materials cost is approximately 30k so far. I am so annoyed that we have given 93k and I am so angry and upset with my partner.
Even the last few weeks I have said to my partner we shouldn’t give him anymore money but my partner was like we need to trust him and he needs it. I am kicking myself that I wasn’t involved more with the finance side of things but I did trust my partner.
All this is causing severe stress on our relationship. I am already struggling with a baby and find this on top just too much to deal with.
My partner met with the builder yesterday and told him we have no more money to give him for the time being. He has agreed to come back this week. I just don’t trust him and that’s my gut feeling.
This is causing so much stress :(

You know that your partner isnt in charge, right?

Just take over. Tell him to stay out of it. He got a shitty contract with times payments instead of work related payments and keeps handing over money while no work is being completed.

Has your partner actually said how much longer he will do that? If the guy keeps slowing down and it goes on for another 6 months, will your partner keep handing over 10 for 15 thousand a month?

I'd have just told my partner he was being an idiot and now needs to stay out of it.

Op, have you got any legal cover with your house insurance? Or with a bank account or as a work perk or similar? Might be a good time to contact them for advice too - if only because it will be one less bill for you to pay as you have already paid for it through your insurance/whatever.

I suspect your DH is clinging onto the 'friend' aspect because it's easier for him than admitting that he was duped and has screwed up by accepting a timeline payment rather than by results payments so has potentially thrown away thousands to this man... If there is any way that you can give him a way to agree with you where he saves face, might be the fastest way for him to admit there's a problem... I know it's not ideal for you but if you are able to do it (even as a way to get to the desired result of getting the building works done and save up the 'discusdion' for later!) then it might be something that you can feel you can do to move things forward...

Good luck, it sounds like you have found yourself in a nightmare situation. Hope you are able to line up legal help, getting charges put on his house/etc before he can do a runner and hide his assets.

OP - is there an update

Hi, thanks for all the help and advice. I have read all these comments so many times and really appreciate them. The builders came back in for a bit and the steels are all in. There is so much more work to be done (I think around 60k) and my other half has given them more money (against my wishes). We only have the 15k that is due at the end of the project. He has walked off site and is now saying he needs the £15k to complete and wants another 20k extra on top (citing material costs but we gave him money for this earlier on). I think we are going to have to go through court. The relationship between my partner and I has completely broken down as I can’t help but blame him. This is a living nightmare. Does anyone have any experience of going through courts? I am sure we will win but not sure how we will get the money from him if he has a limited company and he closes it down?

Hi, if anyone has any advice please let me know. I can’t sleep with the worry :(

I'm sorry, no advice here. We were also screwed over by a builder years ago. Probably in the region of 20-30K. Yes, my husband handled the money. No, we didn't get to court. I didn't fancy spending more money for solicitors and never see anything back as it was a ltd company. Now they operate under a different name.