LODGER DIED - FAMILY DISPUTE RENT

[ViolettFlame]

My lodger of 15 months died. (Not in my home). I unfortunately didn't have a lodger agreement but there is proof of rental and financial arrangement as she replied to my on-line rental ad, paid a deposit and a set monthly amount. This was all conducted on-line and paid through my bank so there is a record.

The family failed to remove her belongings for a further 11 weeks. I kept them informed rent would be due as I can't afford to have the rooms unrented. Access was granted at any time. They didn't want her possessions touching and kept delaying saying they couldn't afford storage and had nowhere to put them.

They paid the final amount due without any kind of dispute or word of disagreement but are now threatening me with court as they believe rent shouldn't have been due from the date she died. (I had deducted the deposit and advance rental from the amount requested, calculated up to the date her possessions were removed. I have therefore not received more than could be expected).

I believe the fact set rental was paid forms a continuous contract until the rooms were free from occupancy. This was sympathetically communicated by text, email and telephone discussions during this period and subsequently accepted by the family by way of final payment. I have retained all written evidence.

It is a horrendous situation for the lodger's family and I feel so sorry for them but I am an independent third party and surely can't be held financially responsible for their decision to continue using my home for storage?

I know I could seek legal help but if anyone can anyone please advise on this I would be grateful.

N.B I know not to make this mistake again and will ensure an agreement is in place for all future lodgers.

Are you saying they paid rent after the lodger died but are now asking for a refund and threatening court action if you don't give them money back?

There's 2 separate issues here. The family don't have a contract or liability for the rent. That ended when the lodger died.

However, you could argue that by failing to remove the belongings they made a separate contract with you for storage.

What should have happened was for you to give them a reasonable time to remove the belongings, eg 2-3 weeks and after that, if they failed to do so, they were liable to pay you storage costs or else you would dispose of the belongings as you saw fit, so you could relet the room. But that should have been communicated to them earlier.

Sounds like they've had advice that they've paid rent that they're not legally liable for and are now asking for the money back.

I don’t think the responses are weird at all.

Family members are not legally responsible for someone else’s debts. There was no contract, presumed or verbal, with the family members. They’re not liable for anything. OP could only claim cost from the lodger’s estate. I can’t imagine asking a bereaved family for money they weren’t liable for, for their dead relative!

Of course, they should have moved her stuff but this is a bereavement, maybe they couldn’t face it. In a normal situation, OP shouldn’t have lost income, but this wasn’t a normal situation. The lodger died. Bad luck for them and the OP.

When my grandad died in a nursing home we still had to pay rent right up until we collected his belongings.

Whatever contract you had was with the lodger (yes, a record of regular payment is sufficient). However that will have ended when the lodger died. The lodger's family are not due to pay anything after that. You can claim from the estate (if there is sufficient money in the estate) but would need to find out who the executor is and send them a bill for the period after death.

If the family have already paid, then they should be able to claim that amount from the estate/executor. In small estates, a member of the family, who may also be the beneficiary of the will, may be the executor so the position gets somewhat confusing.

If the lodger died with no money, there is no estate to claim on and the lodger's family are not liable for the rent due post death so you should repay it. Do you know if there was any life assurance, salary owing etc to the deceased to cover debts like the rent or was your lodger likely to have been broke?

I´d think it should have been a matter of keeping the deposit and advance rent and giving a notice of removal/disposal of belongings if not collected in due time (that covered by the advance rent). The deposit should cover the eventual cost of removing the belongings and "lack of notice" period to search for a new tenant.
But, it´s always best to seek legal advice, rather than to wing it or ask strangers online.

I assume this was written into his contract @MrsPelligrinoPetrichor. In a nursing home deaths are expected.

A lodger occupies under a form of agreement known as a licence. You can have a verbal licence although written is better of course. You can enter into licences for lots of different types of arrangements. A licence is usually personal so it ended when your lodger died. You then effectively entered into a new licence with the relatives to store the possessions in the room. This was further evidenced by the fact they paid for it. In fact self storage agreements are also often licences. It would depend on the facts as to the period of the licence - normally it's the period people pay the rent so sounds monthly.

You have a verbal contract, you legally don’t need written agreements although it is advisable in the future.

You have become and ‘involuntary bailee’ and have a legal responsibility to keep the goods safe and not damaged. As such, you are allowed to charge reasonable costs to the estate for the storage of goods. In this case, I would expect it to be reasonable to charge the cost of the rent as you were unable to let out the room.

there is no strict rule about how long you have to keep them safe, it's just a reasonable time, which is minimum of 3 weeks, but can be up to 3 months depending on the circumstances relating to how the tenant left

What act or case law are you basing this on, @Snoken ?

I think the OP muddied the water by not insisting on the relatives collecting the tenant's belongings in a reasonable time frame. I don't know whether the latter is defined in law, but I'd expect it to be closer to Councils' 2 weeks than 11 weeks.

Anyway, I don't think anyone here really knows, @ViolettFlame. I would suggest that you post your query at LandlordZone. Lots of knowledgeable landlords there who are always happy to help.

fwiw, I agree with @elbea and @Leftbutcameback in the posts above mine. Though IANAL...

If you've clearly told them in writing that the rent for the room would continue to be due whilst their relative's property is stored there, and have given them free access to remove it at any time, then I suspect you're fine.

Their ability to afford 'storage' or not (and it's one room of a family member's stuff so not sure why it needs paid 'storage' anyway) is not your issue. They knew in advance that you would charge to keep the room untouched and out of use and accepted that when they didn't make arrangements to collect and remove the property. They accepted it when they paid.

Now, they're chancing their hand. I suspect that they're just a bit on the cheeky fucker side and are assuming you'll cave.

But the family members are responsible when they have asked for the possessions not to be touched and have left them in place for weeks, which stops the OP renting the room out to someone else and she loses income.

Tenancy agreements form part of the estate. The estate has the same obligations and responsibilities as the tenant. They’d have to serve notice to end the licence, I’d assume the estate hasn’t here so rent would still be liable.

This speculation on reasonable time is pointless. Ordinarily you’d serve notice under Torts (Interference with Goods) Act 1977, if the tenant (or estate) fails to respond within 21 days then the landlord can dispose/sell to recoup storage costs.

To add, I’m not a lawyer but did spend four years studying various types of residential, commercial and agricultural tenancy law.

So they paid but are now regretting paying and have decided to deal with that by threatening you with court?
I wouldn't think they have a hope. You deducted what you possibly could from the amount owing, and kept her possessions safe until they removed them.

However, considering the person you were in a contact with is now deceased, the family have no liability to pay (as far as I am aware).

That would make sense if the room had been vacant - supposing the tenant had verbally agreed the next 12 weeks and then died after 1 week, that would be that; but the fact that her belongings were still there continued the obligation, I would say.

Had they refused responsibility for/interest in the possessions and told OP to get rid of them, I can't see how they'd be liable; but the fact that they gladly took ownership of the possessions surely confers also taking ownership of what has become their storage facility.

I think it's really unfair to criticise OP for being 'heartless'. Of course it's a very sad bereavement and a difficult time for the family, but most people don't take lodgers in to their homes if they don't have any financial need to do so. Suppose you were employed by a family firm run by a couple and one of them died, would you willingly write off 11 weeks of wages and not (gently) ask the survivor for them after a few days, just because you wanted to be sensitive to the recently-bereaved spouse?

Yes, it's sad, but nearly three months is a long time to expect somebody to forego their income. Death registrars and funeral directors expect you to get into action immediately and expect to be paid (or a signed commitment to pay) straightaway. I'm guessing that the 2-week grace period with council houses is partly designed around them avoiding the cost and hassle of having to clear the place if they ended up having to do it themselves. It's normal to have to get all the practicalities out of the way in the week or so following the death and then you can properly begin to grieve.

I think I might have informed the family in writing that unless the room were cleared within say 2 weeks, you would be forced to charge rent as you’re unable to rent the room… so they knew where they stood. I might have given them 2 weeks for free as a measure of goodwill.

Legally…. I have no idea. You need a solicitor!

@elbea this is a licence not a lease (Street v Mountford will ring a bell) so tenancy points don't apply (IAAL)

I agree with others than OP isn't being heartless BTW. When a relative died suddenly we had to clear her HA flat in 2 weeks.

Absolutely this.

There is no rent due and the family are not bound by any previous contract.

Your mistake was not coming to an agreement with regards to the storage of the belongings. Understandable though and I wouldn't have want to be in your position regarding this.

You could try the small claims court to try to get some money for the storage but I don't fancy your chances.

i don’t think some of the PP have read the OP properly. The family have already paid the amount the OP asked for to keep the possessions in the room. That’s evidence of an agreement to pay for the storage. Contract by conduct. The OP doesn’t need to do anything else unless they receive notice a small claims court process has been started.

I found this thread very interesting as two of my DS have lodgers, and have had different lodgers in the past. Experience has taught them to have a written agreement, and take a deposit, and rent is usually paid in advance.
(This after a lodger left suddenly owing rent, etc)
So, in the event of a death, then they would have at least 1 month (the deposit), plus any extra weeks from the date the lodger died to the end of the current period. So, I guess the thing to do, would be (obviously in similar cases), to give a time limit on holding the lodger's possessions.
I know little about council house turn around, but know that in the case of Care Homes, when the resident dies, one has 3 days to clear the room. Therefore a month seems reasonable to me.

This.

When the tenant of a care home dies, the rent continues to be paid until the family remove their belongings.

The care home cannot move a new tenant in until the room is cleared and cleaned, and they cannot afford to have their rooms sit unoccupied. They also often have lists of people waiting for a room to become available.

I think it’s highly unlikely they will take you to court, and if they did I don’t see they have the remotest chance of winning.

A verbal contract is still a contract.

So I don’t think you have anything to worry about.

Painful as it is they should have cleared the room sooner.

That said, I guess OP’s learnt why it’s super important to have a written contract.

I am a lawyer. This is where you stand in law. You could or should have dealt with the contents under the Torts (Interference with Goods) Act 1977 but didn't. They may have a point.

I’m not a lawyer but I really don’t think that’s right - tenancy agreements don’t end with the tenant’s death.

It’s a bit moot in this case because there is no signed tenancy agreement, and what would happen would depend on its terms. But broadly - in a joint tenancy the tenancy passes to whoever remains on the tenancy agreement. In this case of a sole tenancy - if it’s fixed term the ownership passes to the tenant’s representative. If it’s a periodic statutory tenancy it goes to a spouse or family member; periodic assured tenancy the same. If there’s no-one to inherit the tenancy then it goes to the tenant’s representatives as above.

Landlords don’t have the right to relet, they have to get permission from the tenant’s representative. To do so they would have to serve notice and if the representative doesn’t relinquish possession (in this case moving the tenant’s property) the landlord would actually have to get a possession order.