Gutted - think we have to withdraw our offer on house due to sellers omission on planning permission.

cocogoloco · 2022-05-08T20:34:20+00:00

Had an offer accepted last week. When viewing property, talked to owners about how we may look to add a loft conversion. They they offered the info that the single story extension they added was meant to be double story, but due too funds and baby on way, they stuck with single. We have just had back dims on loft measurements and its well under the minimum height dims, so i did a little hunting online for their planning docs to see if i could find info about the depth of the footings for the single ext. Turns out they had planning permission denied for double storey due to neighbours right to light (its a semi). So we can't extend up or out. Feel so mis-lead, if they had just been upfront about it. We even went over asking. We are going to call their EA tmrw and ask for clarity, but its all there in b&w on the planning portal :(

clippety clop · 08/05/2022 21:53

Awful as it is I'd be inclined to string them along for ages and then dump them at the last minute and say well they weren't honest with us so in the meantime we've shopped around and found something else.

areyouhavingagiraffe · 09/05/2022 07:58

@cocogoloco , a similar thing happened to me last year. Vendor told me that he was due to get planning for an extension. I also looked on planning portal and saw he has three applications reused due to conservation issues and green belt.

areyouhavingagiraffe · 09/05/2022 07:58

I also pulled out a few days after my offer was accepted

Seeline · 09/05/2022 08:03

There may be scope for a revised design for a two storey addition. It's unusual not to allow any form of 2 storey for a semi detached. Have a look on the portal for other properties in the road to see what has been allowed within the last 5 years or so (assuming properties in the road are similar, and your pair of semis aren't significantly different).

Original poster

cocogoloco · 09/05/2022 08:26

Seeline · 09/05/2022 08:03

There may be scope for a revised design for a two storey addition. It's unusual not to allow any form of 2 storey for a semi detached. Have a look on the portal for other properties in the road to see what has been allowed within the last 5 years or so (assuming properties in the road are similar, and your pair of semis aren't significantly different).

Unfortunatly, these are 2 sets of same style semi-detached on the road, nothing else is similar.
What also set me of searching was that the 3rd house in row did a garden room extension, which i thought odd, then i learnt about the roof pitch.

The wording of the rejection was as attached, think its pretty set in stone.

Gutted - think we have to withdraw our offer on house due to sellers omission on planning permission.

OP posts:

Starseeking · 09/05/2022 08:29

If you're planning to buy this house on the basis of being able to extend up and out, and know it has already been refused, I'd pull out. Otherwise you'll be stuck in a property that you will outgrow very quickly.

toots111 · 09/05/2022 08:31

clippety clop · 08/05/2022 21:53

Awful as it is I'd be inclined to string them along for ages and then dump them at the last minute and say well they weren't honest with us so in the meantime we've shopped around and found something else.

Why would you do this? The house isn’t going to work for you given the new information so just withdraw your offer and look for something else. No need to follow advice to be petty about it.

BuanoKubiamVej · 09/05/2022 08:36

It's fine to pull out. You aren't committed yet and this time between offer accepted and exchange of contracts exists precisely to allow you to check that everything is ok. Everything is not ok. So you pull out. No problem. You are not obliged to make life easy for this vendor by buying a property that doesn't work for you.

NotMyselfWithoutCoffee · 09/05/2022 08:50

@clippety clop

No need to be vindictive, end of the day buying a house is a business transaction.

Best not to waste anymore time rather than dragging it out.

yourestandingonmyneck · 09/05/2022 08:55

Yes, pull out asap and let your solicitor tell them exactly why and leave it at that.

I suspect they've lied because they know this will be an issue to many buyers and they desperately want to sell, so I suspect they might try to negotiate a lower price with you.

tuliplover · 09/05/2022 08:57

Silly to lie about it when it would come back during the searches. But I'm also not sure why denying a two story extension means you can't have a loft extension. With a loft you are not going further than the existing footprint.
Anyway it doesn't sound like the right house for you. I'd make it clear why you are pulling out so the agents can make sure any future buyers are not misled.

BaaMoon · 09/05/2022 08:58

yourestandingonmyneck · 09/05/2022 08:55

Yes, pull out asap and let your solicitor tell them exactly why and leave it at that.

I suspect they've lied because they know this will be an issue to many buyers and they desperately want to sell, so I suspect they might try to negotiate a lower price with you.

I agree with this one. If you don't want it pull out. If you don't mind not being able to extend then use it to negotiate the price and ask them if there's anything else they need to clarify.

Seeline · 09/05/2022 09:07

cocogoloco · 09/05/2022 08:26

Unfortunatly, these are 2 sets of same style semi-detached on the road, nothing else is similar.
What also set me of searching was that the 3rd house in row did a garden room extension, which i thought odd, then i learnt about the roof pitch.

The wording of the rejection was as attached, think its pretty set in stone.

Show quote history

I can understand it if the rear projection was huge, and/or the extension went right to the boundary line. HOwever, on semis, it is usually possible to set the addition in from the boundary at first floor level but still extend rearwards on the non-adjoining side like in the picture

Willdoitlater · 09/05/2022 09:09

Sprry, I've only skimmed the other replies, so apologise if rhis has been said already. If the vendors knew they would likely never be allowed a 2 storey extension, they wouldn't have paid extra to have the single storey extension foundations strong enough for another storey in the future, surely? So even if you did get planning permission for a second storey, you might have to knock down existing extension and start from scratch.

Original poster

cocogoloco · 09/05/2022 09:19

The roof pitch 1.8m; for permitted dev needs to be minimum 2.2m and with it being a semi; cant reqlly raise the roof to get that extra dimension. So as it stands, its not extendable up or out.

OP posts:

Original poster

cocogoloco · 09/05/2022 09:20

Willdoitlater · 09/05/2022 09:09

Sprry, I've only skimmed the other replies, so apologise if rhis has been said already. If the vendors knew they would likely never be allowed a 2 storey extension, they wouldn't have paid extra to have the single storey extension foundations strong enough for another storey in the future, surely? So even if you did get planning permission for a second storey, you might have to knock down existing extension and start from scratch.

This was what led me to start the search for the footings info, didnt know if it was part of the plans online...then i found this info and its all blown up.

OP posts:

LIZS · 09/05/2022 09:22

But you could have a dormer and use pp? If it already has an extension you probably would not get further pd rights anyway.

Seeline · 09/05/2022 09:28

cocogoloco · 09/05/2022 09:19

The roof pitch 1.8m; for permitted dev needs to be minimum 2.2m and with it being a semi; cant reqlly raise the roof to get that extra dimension. So as it stands, its not extendable up or out.

This relates to Building Regulations I think - certainly nothing to do with permitted development under the Planning Regs. Have a look at Class B in the document I linked to above.

Having had a previous ground floor addition no longer has any impact on whether you can have a dormer addition as permitted development. THe rules changes in 2015.

doingitforthegirls · 09/05/2022 09:36

I'm sorry but I can't see where they have actually lied to you? They suggested a loft conversion this isn't the same as an extension. They didn't say they previously had approval for a double extension and just ended up doing a single due to circumstances etc

Seeline · 09/05/2022 09:38

Sorry - I attached the Permitted development householder' guide to another thread - getting confused!
Class B in this document relates to dormer extensions

Permitted development guide

Original poster

cocogoloco · 09/05/2022 09:58

doingitforthegirls · 09/05/2022 09:36

I'm sorry but I can't see where they have actually lied to you? They suggested a loft conversion this isn't the same as an extension. They didn't say they previously had approval for a double extension and just ended up doing a single due to circumstances etc

Pls re-read my OP

I stated WE raised the possibility of doing a loft conversion as an option.

THEY then stated that their single storey extension was going to be a double storey - but due to funds, they decided to just go with single. They DID NOT state they did not do this because PP was refused. They said, yeah you could still do it tho....knowing full well we could never do that!

OP posts:

Original poster

cocogoloco · 09/05/2022 10:04

Seeline · 09/05/2022 09:38

Sorry - I attached the Permitted development householder' guide to another thread - getting confused!
Class B in this document relates to dormer extensions

Permitted development guide

Thank you for this. Do you know how this is impacted by it being a semi-detatched house? I do worry if these neighboiurs got one set of PP rejected, they could well do so again?

OP posts:

doingitforthegirls · 09/05/2022 10:10

@cocogoloco

You could still do though if you appealed and submitted a revised application with a change of shape of the extension. Planning wasn't refused forever for a double height extension - it was refused for the specific plans that they submitted at the time

So yes they are correct that due to funds they just went with a single storey because they obviously didn't have the time and money to get it redrawn and resubmitted as a new application

Still not seeing the lie sorry

(I'm not the vendor by the way 😂)

RidingMyBike · 09/05/2022 10:33

It's very much buyer beware if you're buying somewhere intending to extend. Our old neighbour put house on market nearly a year ago with 'potential for extension' subject to planning permission. That would take it from a 3 to a 4 bed house. Got some buyers, who fortunately looked into planning permission before exchange and discovered it wouldn't be permitted. They ended up buying our (already extended several decades ago) house. Neighbour's house was taken off market. It's now reappeared with a different EA and still says the same about potential to extend even though they know it wouldn't be granted!

So, if you want to buy somewhere and extend it always check. The existing owner may not have applied for permission, in which case it won't show up in searches (this was the case with the neighbour), but it is possible to put on a planning enquiry without owning the house.

Sunnyshoeshine · 09/05/2022 10:38

If you have tall ceilings on the middle floor, you can still do a loft conversation by lowering the ceilings. Our loft was 10cm too low, so our builders are lowering the 1st floor ceilings to give us the extra height for building control sign off.

It means moving out for 3 weeks instead of staying in the property whilst the work is done, but given how much prices have gone up round us (SW London), it's still massively cheaper than looking to buy somewhere with another bathroom + bedroom and the stamp duty to move etc.