Would you buy a fixer-upper right now?

[stuntbubbles]

What with shortages of materials, prices rocketing and staying up, shortage of good tradespeople and long waiting lists – plus in a new-to-us town so wouldn’t know people for word-of-mouth recommendations?

We’ve just sold our fixer-upper and were looking for a move-in-ready house where we might change things in the long term but it would need to work for now. There aren’t any! We just viewed one yesterday with lime green gloss paint on the bedroom wall and a Star Wars carpet that smelled of dog (this room carefully not pictured on RightMove listing ). Listed all the work we’d need to do and it wasn’t worth it for the SQM or location.

But there’s a three-storey fixer-upper on a beautiful street next to the park, more than twice the SQM of our current house… At a minimum it needs:

New bathroom including knocking through to the separate loo
10 new sash windows
New radiators throughout and new boiler
French doors to garden
New carpet throughout upstairs
Floors sanded throughout ground floor
A million gas fires ripping out & replacing with period (replicas)
Redecoration throughout
Concrete garden smashing up & removing then new topsoil and turf
New shed
A couple of weird stud partition walls moving
Random bits & bobs eg some fancy tiles & period wooden decoration on the outside reinstating to match neighbouring properties

Anything that comes up on survey

We’d have £100k. And a 3.5yo and a new baby to get in the way.

In my head I’m like “I make the list, choose the fittings, hand over my money to a good builder, and simply suffer for four-six weeks”. But in reality isn’t it always worse than that and horrible? Particularly now? What’s everyone’s experiences currently with securing quotes and getting workmen in, and getting the fittings they want vs. getting what’s available?

Sounds like you've already made up your mind . If you think you can live with the stress then I would go for it. How about factoring in the cost of moving out for a while during the most disruptive work? Facebook community groups are great for trades recommendations.

@vera16 Definitely dithering! My heart says “ooh, I can make it pretty!” my head says “FFS, woman, you HATE dust and you make babies that don’t fucking SLEEP just hold on til the housing market is less shit”.

I am in same boat. Considered newbuilds but the premiums on the large style/future proof types is eye watering in my neck of the woods. Less than 1300 sqft ones wanting 700+. So started looking again at older and the 1860s property I was interested in is still available probably for all the reasons mentioned above. It’s not a gut refurb but it definitely needs reconfiguring to achieve a larger kitchen, the outside needs rerendering and painting and bathrooms are tired. Garden is also fairly small. All this is assuming survey ok. I think it would be well worth it in the end as it has stunning features such as large double glazed sash wondows with original shutters. I will probably go for it but also ttc’ing so may have a toddler by the time we get to refurb.

I have done it but not with a baby and toddler. Ime it takes twice as much money and time as you think and then there's the normal maintenance stuff on top. It never really ends and you end up moving to the house you wanted in the first place.

@stuntbubbles
I think possibly this 😬

We only have one DS9 who is very self sufficient - and I do feel he's been a bit neglected due to all the work - so not sure I'd face it with two tinies...

but DS says he much prefers this house, and loves being able to have an impromptu run up and down the garden in middle of supper, so I'm still glad we did it really...

You have basically described the house we bought 18 months ago (although it does have replaced for wooden double glazed sashes throughput) - but we still do want to knock two load bearing walls out of the bottom floor to open up kitchen and French doors to outside.

We've now done most of top two floors... redec throughout and two replaced bathrooms (one was leaking into lounge...) and some really weird seventies stuff in a Victorian semi (pine cladding, even on ceilings...)

But if you do go for it, tips that have worked for us:

Make friends with local neighbours and get recommendations for Trades. Our opposite neighbour recommended Gary

Find one great tradesperson (Gary the wonderful decorator). Then all their mates seem to be plumbers / tilers / leccies/ etc
You have your team.

Get as many who are under tax threshold as you can so they aren't needing to charge vat
(Plumbers excepted- they always seem to charge vat)

Employ all separately (if you employ one builder to do the lot you'll be into vat on everything as they then sub contract / employ so turnover is so high)

Be prepared to do as much as you can yourself (basic painting, decking, etc) and only get pros in for tricky stuff.
So we got a plasterer in (Gary's mate) to remove artex in our bedroom,
DH and I painted it all,
Gary put up the wallpaper on the chimney breast (I don't do wallpaper)

Do it in small stages with breathers ( your brain gets decision fatigue and you get fed up of making countless cups of tea - and buying sugar) - which it sounds from your list you could

Do give all your trades countless mugs of tea, the odd Danish pastry - and if you decide halfway through a big wall that Timeless is too mushroom and it's got to be FB Tallow, also give a bottle of wine to acknowledge you've just made him do the same job twice... [guilty me lord] Yes, he may also charge you for the extra time (he actually didn't) but it's worth a tenner on a nice bottle of red to just keep everyone happy and show appreciation.

There's been raging threads on whether or not making tea for trades is a Good Idea before, so my wine offerings are probably not for all... but so far so good here....

Kitchen next 😬

I think it would be well worth it in the end as it has stunning features such as large double glazed sash wondows with original shutters.
TAKE ALL MY MONEY 😍 That’s apparently how I make decisions: is it gorgeous? Sold!

@CorsicaDreaming Thank you so much for this: we absolutely need a Gary! I recognise the decision fatigue so much from the renovation we’ve just done, where the house was in such a state we just had to do a lot at once – and as a consequence have an awful lot of “Just don’t care, fuck it” fittings and finishes that I don’t love.

On the other hand the last reno was a “Surprise! The house just fell down around your ears” number, with no budget. This one we can be prepared for. Seeing it again tomorrow to make the final decision/crunch the numbers. Also seeing a smaller, move-in-ready house with a tinier garden so we can compare and contrast: small and no dust/disaster/money-sucking, or big and stressful for a while with a potentially brilliant end result.

We moved into an edwardian house when the kids were 2 and 4 and other than some decorating didnt make major changes until 7 years later when we had the money. We still loved living in the house even with the 1970s kitchen and green mouldy bathroom! I would go for it if its liveable.

Yes I think @bilbodog has a point.

Things seem utterly-awful-must-be-changed-immediately before you move in - we too have a side return of concrete that looks like Steptoe's Yard - and a 70s? 40s? garage with an asbestos roof... in the middle of the sunniest bit of the garden

But 18 months in and you (kind of) get used to the fact the kitchen sink is down a narrow corridor off the kitchen (so narrow that you cannot even squeeze past your DH let alone someone you don't actually share a bed with) and you are keeping most of your food in a separate room as "tomorrow the building works may start... next month... next year).

But 100% I wouldn't go back (despite the fab kitchen I left behind) - or have been as happy in any of the other options we looked at which were basically ready to move in as they were...

I just really wish I had a magic wand and could wave it and downstairs was now sorted... it does take up a LOT of headspace, money and energy.

But the people who lived here before were happy as it is, and sometimes I think about that and try and get more perspective on what's really needed, and what I'd just rather like...

@stuntbubbles - when you look at the garden concrete again tomorrow, also consider if you could soften it by laying bricks or decking on top (or even dare I say it, fake grass) which may be much cheaper than having to get rid of all the concrete, depending how thick / extensive it is.

We've got an area that's a complete state and a trip hazard with lowered manhole covers and uneven concrete levels. And the other day I realised you could cover a multitude of sins, level it and raise things to the same level with decking. Now if money was no object or I was starting with a clean slate, that wouldn't be my choice, but it is going to cost a fortune to get all the concrete taken out properly- it's really thick - and yet DH and I could sort it with decking ourselves - and it would look so much better than currently...

But then you get into the debate: do it once for twenty years, but can't afford to do it at all yet... or quick fix for five years but feels a bit like money down the drain (and then you end up living with that compromise for the next twenty...)

@bilbodog @CorsicaDreaming This is very wise and I’m extremely guilty of the “it needs XYZ” when the reality is “I saw XYZ in Homes & Gardens and think I’m lady of the manor”.

The garden really is a need, though: I garden every day and DD plays out every day. Her absolute favourite thing in the world is “running on the grass” and she loves digging and planting – as do I! Since we’d have the money to do it properly first time, and create a space where I can then indulge in my David Austin Roses hobby, I’d hugely regret skimping.

But you’re absolutely right that ugly decoration and weird stuff can be lived with. And is probably better to live with so I can see what the house needs, rather than doing panic painting and getting it wrong.

Tomorrow’s viewing goal then is to assess it for need vs. want, and rough budget for the need, while assuming a chunk of budget for whatever a survey throws up…

I look at fixer uppers on rightmove, see the space and potential and think yes please I could turn that into a great property! But the shortage of tradesman put me off. I also have a 1 year old so doing bits at the weekend is impossible. On the other hand new builds and newish houses seem to be so pokey with no storage and about £100k more for a worse place and usually a kitchen that's impractical!
I've abandoned looking at the moment as I just get fed up!

@stuntbubbles
Perhaps tomorrow when looking at the garden think about any quick DIY fixes you could do for the next 5 years rather than needing to get someone in to entirely break up concrete and remove it all and start again. That would save a lot of cost and tick one job for the time being.

Could you soften it by laying a brick path over the concrete? Or decking? or even while the children are small some thick padded external underlay type stuff and fake grass? I know fake grass is (understandably) hugely unpopular on MN, but we ended up using some in our old tiny north facing garden for an area where normal grass would not grow (north, dry, overhanging trees) and so it was constantly muddy and rubbish and fairly unusable.
it actually made a lovely small area to sit on with DS when he was small and play games It really felt like a room outdoors and sitting on carpet... just a (controversial) thought.

@stuntbubbles - cross posting! I was typing mine when you said how important the garden is, so what I said may be helpful - or a bit wide of the mark...

PS - on the Lady of the Manor thing: never get a subscription to Homes & Antiques...

Absolutely fatal 😉

@CorsicaDreaming It was helpful to clarify my list of “absolutely no-question this is important” vs “could ignore for years” – I need that list with me tomorrow I think, literally! On paper! Our budget won’t be bottomless so I’ll need to be ruthless and identify the truly important bits. I suspect if I decked over it and did container gardening for years I’d never save up enough to do it properly and would always be a bit sad. I need the soil. I bloody love soil! My first flat was a terrace up a flight of steps and I dedicated several days to carrying buckets of mature through to the tiny garden to enrich the soil.

Foolishly I’ve just read a timely H&G feature where someone buys a giant Sussex fixer-upper and serendipitously meets a builder on the school run and next thing you know, it’s all William Morris wallpaper and her husband DIY casting pale pink concrete kitchen counters. Easy-peasy. (DP would NEVER.)

I think I need to subscribe to H&G now

We are in the process of buying a fixer-upper.

we are selling DM’s house and ours. We are buying a single bigger house and building a self-contained annexe for DM. Not content with that we are completely remodelling the downstairs on the main house and adding a big extension. The house is a real state at the moment but could be really lovely. Beautiful south-facing garden.

complicated by the fact that my DM is disabled (cerebral palsy) and my two DC are both autistic (as am I). We don’t like noise or disorder. Or change. Bodes well, right?? 😂😂

just for good measure, the DC are home educated now, DP works from home 100% and I work F/T from home (self-employed).

what could possibly go wrong? 😳😳😂😂

I'm watching the cowboy builders working on next door right now. It really puts me off. We've had to put up with disruption from them. But even so the quality of work is awful.
If you have access to a decent builder then go for it. If not it seems to be a world of pain, now and when it leaks ( pretty sure their roof will).

It is also a good idea to live in a property before making big changes - if i had done my kitchen 2 years after moving in i might have moved it to the front of the property but by waiting 7 years we then had the money to extend out the back and it was much nicer. My MIL also suggested putting a second bathroom in one of the downstairs reception rooms 🙄🙄🙄 which we obviously didnt do - so dont take all the advice you are given!

Just bought a doer upper and thought our budget was sufficient but actually turns out it’s all going to go on just a few essential repairs! So no cosmetic changes and it’s frankly quite depressing living in something last touched in the 70s.

our old house had been beautifully renovated and we never had to do anything. However we couldn’t have known that from the viewing or the survey.

I think it’s probably a matter of luck whether it works out or not unless you are really very experienced with buildings

I know a man who works in the building trade at the moment. He can get the supplies he needs for his type of work but the costs have risen a lot. He has noticed that everything has gone up and some people are telling him it taking longer for things to arrive from the factory to their business.

It can be very hard to get good people or trades people to do work in a house or garden. Then if your new to an area you won't have people to ask for who to employ and who to avoid. At the moment good people are busy.

With a baby and toddler I would buy a house that does not need major work. Get a survey done to avoid problems. Replacing a few carpets and painting walls ect would be ok but any major work will cost more and take longer than expected.
If you were to price all on your list at the moment you find that £100,000 won't go as far as expected. Once you start to strip an old house things can come to light that require money and time to correct.

500 to replace a fence post… surely just do it yourself??? Sledgehammer to break up the old post/base, a new post and some postcrete. Plus some digging.