Do you need technical drawings for planning permission??

[SpidersAreShitheads]

Hi,

Is there anyone here who knows whether technical drawings are included when you submit architect proposals for planning permission?

Our architect has done the basic plans, which I've shown our builder. He says he needs technical drawings to do a detailed quote. Will the architect automatically produce these or will I have to request/pay for them separately?

Our architect is supposed to be doing the drawings for planning permission, and then when granted, getting the structural survey and producing whatever is required for building regs (they have their own structural engineer they use). Where do "technical drawings" fit into this?

The reason I went for this architect was that I know nothing about the process and very much needed someone who could hold my hand a bit and explain what we need and when. I've spent a huge amount of time researching but I'm aware there are gaps in what I know. This architect was lovely and reassured me that he'd take care of everything and spent a lot of time at the time talking me through the process before we appointed him.

But since signing the contract, the service has been abysmal both in terms of communication and quality. I don't have the time - or money - to bin him off and start from scratch so I'm gritting my teeth and persevering as we have a really great builder waiting to start.

I'm just waiting for the final plans to check before we submit for planning permission - they've mentioned doing elevations but nothing about "technical drawings". They know we need the plans to get a full quote from the builder.

Am I likely to be receiving technical plans just based on normal process? And yes, before anyone suggests the obvious, I have asked the architect if they're providing them and not had the courtesy of a reply. As per bloody usual.

I'd be really grateful for any replies from anyone who's been through the process.

My experience is from bigger construction projects but for planning you need elevations and a general arrangement plan. The GA shows the building from above within the site boundary.

For the build you need detailed design drawings and these are of sufficient detail for you builder to work from.

I'm not sure what level of detail you need for building regs and whether these are the same set of drawings.

You don't need technical drawings for building regs and they will cost more than the basic plans.
I don't know about what the builders need. My builder is happy to work from the basic plans but my conversion is very simple.

We had simple plans drawn for planning permission and then we had more detailed plans to submit to get building regs. We have our builder a copy of the detailed plans.

You don't need technical plans for planning. If it's refused and you decide to revise to get another shot at it, you'd have to redo the tech plans as well (ie more money spent potentially for no reason).

I'm a town planner, although haven't worked on residential schemes for a long time. You will need basic plans to show the elevations from all sides of the building or extension including windows etc., a floor plan and a site plan.

They don't need to be detailed but do need to be to scale to show the height and projection of your extension.
If its a really small project some people used to draw it themselves!

The planning portal website is quite useful for information about what you need. Or you could look at weekly lists of planning applications on your councils website and see if an application similar to your development has been submitted and what their drawings look like.

Thanks for all the replies so far. @Geranium1984 - thank you, yes, we're more or less ready to submit for planning permission, the architect forgot to put windows in certain walls so we're just waiting for the last draft and the elevations and then it should be submitted. That part is pretty much done.

The builder is saying he can't provide a detailed quote until we have the technical drawings though. This is a new mention - no one had said anything about "technical drawings" up until now. The architect is doing the planning permission stuff now, and the building regs stuff when planning is granted.....but I have no idea where "technical drawings" fall. I showed the overall plans that are being submitted for planning permission to the building but he's saying he needs technical drawings to quote.

It's a really big project for a house move and I need a proper estimate/quote because there's a good chance we won't be able to afford everything - I need to see how far we can go on our current budget, and what bits we can defer, but I can't do that until I get quotes/estimates.

The builder visited to take a look and said we'd be more or less able to get it all done for £100k - but when I spoke to him on the phone a couple of weeks ago, he then said we won't get it all done for £100k. I really need to get a better idea of what the breakdown is and how far away our budget is but I'm just going round in bloody circles.

The builder will need technical drawings to give you a more accurate quote but then can give you a ballpark quote in the meantime.

it’s also pointless getting them done until planning has actually been granted as they can request changes or refuse planning - wasting money.

I know it’s frustrating as you want the answers now, but patience and planning honestly gives you the best possible outcome. Our build was supposed to be starting this month but we have pushed it back as we want to spec things out further - bathroom designs, kitchen layout, lighting etc as the more info a builder can send to their QS, the more accurate their cost estimates will be. Ours is a total new build and whilst there’s a contingency, there isn’t an unlimited pot of money.

@BookwormButNoTime thank you, I think what I'll have to do is go back to the builder once planning permission has been requested and ask for them to provide an outline quote.

Just to provide context, my DM is selling her house and I'm selling mine. We are building an annexe in the new house for DM and then extending the main house for me, DP and DC. The main house isn't big enough for us all to live in together while we're building annexe. So, DM and stepdad are moving in when we complete, the building work on annexe will start, they will then move across into annexe and then we will complete on our house sale and move into main house while the rest of the building work is done.

If that wasn't all complicated enough, my DM is disabled and is going to struggle to get upstairs to the current bathroom so her annexe needs to be finished asap. Also, my two DC are autistic - one with significantly high needs - and the prospect of moving house is proving tricky to say the least (albeit very, very essential). At the moment I've got no idea if we can actually afford to do the work on the main house that we want. Initially we were told yes, but now we're not sure due to the later comments from the builder. I'm desperate for some kind of quote because then I can figure out what we can afford, and that will help with DC's anxieties.

I know I sound mega impatient but I'm desperately juggling everything at the moment (selling DM's house for her, buying new one, liaising with architect and builder, renovating my house to put it on the market, working full-time and home educating two SEN children). I just want someone to make it easier for me as I'm drowning trying to figure out what needs doing and when haha

Our architect did same as yours, the basic plans for planning permission, then a second set of technical plans for builder.

Our architect did basic plans for the PP submission, and once these had passed (took a bit of back and forth, and amending), he did more detailed plans for the building control submission. These were also of a level of detail to satisfy the builders. These also needed amended a couple of times based on requirements of our council, and we couldn’t get any builders to look at plans until building control had approved them.
So builders should be able to work from your second stage drawings, designed for the building control submission.

I'm desperately juggling everything at the moment (selling DM's house for her, buying new one, liaising with architect and builder, renovating my house to put it on the market, working full-time and home educating two SEN children).

I have nothing constructive to offer but just reading this made me feel exhausted. I hope you get everything sorted.

The basic drawings for the planning application won't allow the builder to do more than give you a rough estimate of price. The "technical drawings" the builder wants are the detailed drawings the architect will likely put together for the building regulations application. These have the information needed for a detailed quotation to be produced.

I say the architect is "likely" to produce these because it won't always happen that way. It depends on the project and the arrangements made with the architect and builder.

The most common approach to building regulations is to have the detailed technical drawings put together and submit them to building control in advance. They check and approve these then visit the site during the work to ensure it's being done as shown on the drawings. This is sometimes called a "full plans" application.

There are other ways to go about things. The alternative "building notice" approach doesn't involve detailed drawings. The works are instead inspected as they go along. The risk is that the inspector sees a problem and things have to be changed to comply, which causes delays and expense on site. This approach is more likely to be used by people building their own extensions, or where the builder is more closely involved in the process e.g. under a "design and build" arrangement.

In theory there's a third possibility: building the whole thing without approval or inspection and then applying for "regularisation" afterwards. This obviously carries a lot of risk as the finished work might need to be opened up (e.g. digging up floors, taking down ceilings) to allow the structure to be inspected, and in a worst case scenario it could have to be torn down and rebuilt.

You can find info on the different approaches at www.planningportal.co.uk/applications/building-control-applications/building-control/how-to-get-approval/pre-site-approval/introduction

We are in the middle of a full house renovation together with a two storey extension. The technical drawings were produced after planning permission was granted as a collaboration between the architect and structural engineers. Our builder couldn't quote until he had them.

The planning permission drawings are 'this is what it will look like' and the technical drawings are focused on the 'how' it will be built....ie what steels are needed, depth of the foundations, amount of concrete etc which considerably influenced the build cost, to the extent that we had to reduce the scope of the work.

I remember being similarly frustrated that the costings took so long...I hadn't appreciated that planning permission is only the first step. It didn't help that costs have risen so much and our architect didn't appear to consider our budget at all. 🤔 Good luck!

Spiders - i've previously done an extension project about twelve years ago, and I'm now starting a new one which needed planning permission because we have moved to conservation area.

For ours, the architect did everything at once. So he has basically got the structural engineer involved who specs for all the steels needed and window specs, etc - only then we got his plans - checked plans and like you pointed out the missing bits - submitted. Now I'm about to approach builders (who I've previously contacted but weren't keen to proceed before getting to this stage of plans).

I think the difficulty at the moment is everything is so volatile because of the Ukraine crisis, Covid, Brexit, etc. I had hoped to start ours now but we are wondering about waiting till next spring to see if things calm down. Also there just seem to be significant issues with supply and even basic commodities are significantly more expensive (some products, esp timber and specialty builders roofing materials have doubled in price)

On keeping architects / trades on track - I have had a whole host of tradespeople through the house in the last year, all working independently, plus the architect and structural engineer.
I have found the only way to keep any momentum is to have multiple persistent polite phone calls. Emails/texts don't seem to ever quite work to get you to the forefront of their mind. I think you need to perfect the art of being very persistent but polite and friendly, so they want to prioritise your project over others as they like you, but they don't forget you as you are still making a (slight) nuisance of yourself. My architect was similar - lovely chap, but I was on near weekly phone calls in the end to push it through.

Reading your last post, and I hesitate whether I should say this, but I just wonder whether you are doing the right thing taking on something quite so complex with so many people who have significant needs in the mix.

Can you not find a property that needs less work and would still suit all your needs? Just seems to be an awful lot in the mix that could potentially go wrong, and multiple things that are going to have to dovetail, particularly in the current climate.

Off on a tangent but annexes don’t always go down well with planners. Wait for planning permission first.