PigletJohn are you there?! Damp? on internal wall of bungalow

[JMAH]

We are lost for which way to turn next after years of trying to fix our problem. There is damp (?) re paint and some plaster flaking off the base of the wall in the kitchen, it feels damp but not wet. The other side of this internal wall is a bedroom with a long working single radiator attached to the back of the problem wall. The problem wall originally had a big solid fuel burner stove in front of it with a big pipe which went up through the loft and out of the roof - so not attached to the wall as such BUT the stove did sit on a concrete plinth. There is no other chimney involved.

It was removed approx 38 years ago to enable a loft conversion, the concrete plinth was removed with it and the floor was made good. The stove was replaced by a long double radiator. The kitchen floor is the only concrete floor the others are floor boards. The bungalow was built in 1937.
Over the years we have had various trades people in to fix it.
Several years ago my husband did it himself after all failed. He is not a damp expert or plasterer but he researched 'how to' and had a go. He took the plaster off the wall way further than there was any sign of damp - to be on the safe side. He dug a very deep hole in the kitchen floor, grave shaped, probably bigger. He spent hours in this hole injecting a damp proof course in the wall below and above ground level. It was a big job and lasted weeks, drying etc. He re plastered it and it was eventually painted once dried out completely - months later.
This was several years ago. To our dismay it eventually came back again.
We can' help wondering if it is something to do with the old concrete plinth, strange the damp is behind where it was. The damp only goes up the wall approx 60cm/2ft at the most, the plaster looks bubbly, then flakes off.
We want to have a new kitchen fitted which includes using this wall space and so need to have it fixed - we had given up on it.
We removed the radiator about 5 years ago when the problem arose again. We have had two trades people in to give their opinion, one said we used the wrong plaster, we had it replaced by a plasterer. After some time it came back again, it does not come back immediately.
At the beginning of this year we had another tradesman in to assess it. He came to see it and spent some time discussing it with us and gave 3 options. The most drastic was plaster removed, treatment of wall, wall batons attached, something added, some sort of cladding or membrane? Re plastered. This was the most expensive option but we went for it because we wanted it fixing once and for all, especially if we were going to 'cover' the wall. We thought it was very expensive £900+ but decided it would be worth it if it meant it was finally fixed. We accepted his quote and heard nothing from him. I contacted him again and he said he was too busy to do the job. We now think he over priced the job because he didn't want to do it?
Not sure what to do next, where to go, who to seek help from. We are retired now and my husband does not want to tackle it again!
Any ideas?

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1. do not allow anyone into your house who sells silicone injections

2. do not believe anyone who thinks you can cure damp by covering it up

3. please post photos, inside and out, of the wall all the way from ground to roof. Include gutters, downpipes, drains, manhole covers, pipes and taps.

4. do you have a water meter? do you have access to ears under the age of 20 and in good working order?

Kitchens are notorious for containing taps, sinks, pipes, washing machines and drains, and for having water supply pipes under the floor. after 50 to 100 years, it is normal for some of them to leak. accordingly, kitchens often have wet patches.

Thanks so much for replying and so quickly.
I will try and get some photos together.
We do not have a water meter and have access to ears only over 20 and under 8!
Am I right in thinking photos of the outside walls of bungalow as well as the problem internal wall would be helpful?
Thank you again.

yes, inside and out.

please post photos, inside and out, of the wall all the way from ground to roof. Include gutters, downpipes, drains, manhole covers, pipes and taps.

Hello, I now have some photos for you. There are a few ……

Is there a quicker way to send them? I am only allowed to send 3 at a time. The problem is below the black lines. Above the black lines is solid.

And third one didn’t go!

I'm going to post some photos also this evening so following too hope you don't mind!

Just going to plod on……!

Nearly there.

Last ones I think.

They are the best of the photos but I can take some more detailed ones if you require……now I know how to do it!
Thank you Piglet John I hope this is what you needed.
I might add there are a number of jobs needing to be done, all slowed down by major illness and Covid. Hoping to catch up now, a bit at a time!

Sorry new here.

Can I ask who piglet John is? Intrigued. And gave a similar issue. Spent £thousands on surveyors and no joy.

Good luck OP.

ctd11 I don't mind anyone joining in or watching thread, that's what it is for......helping each other! Plus don't think I've a choice!!!
CotDotten I'm new myself last couple of weeks, so still finding my feet. All I know is Piglet John seems to know a lot about damp. I had read posts about damp problems in the hope of finding helpful advice and the best posts that came up were from PJ so I posted my problem by asking if he was around.....and so pleased he has answered.
JMAH

For some reason I can't enlarge photos in this new version of mumsnet

The damp seems to extend along the wall rather than having a mountain or semicircle centred on a particular point

I am attracted to all the wastepipes and downpipes. Let's have a look at those first.

Where they go into the ground, some of them probably go into glazed brown clay gullies. These are usually broken and leaking into the ground. Are any of them close to the wet wall? Leakage causes the ground under and around them to sink, and there is often cracked, sunken and patched concrete and brick attempts to repair and build it up (but the cracked gully not replaced). Have a look round those, please, and some pics showing if they are level or have moved. You may find damp earth and red worms round drain leaks. Sometimes wild tomato plants and lush green weed growth.

@ctd11 please don't post photos of your own house on this thread, though.

Thank you Piglet John.
The damp on the wall does extend along the bottom of it, it does not go any further up than around 40-50cms, the worse parts are nearer to the floor. The wall is an internal wall on both sides, with a working radiator on the side without damp. It runs from the hall, which is the centre of the bungalow to the where the little return support wall meets it, we think once a pantry - I will take a photo.
I have had a go of enlarging one of the photographs to check a measurement and after some difficulty got it to enlarge by clicking on the photo then on a little + sign outside of the photo.... by default more than anything! Sorry if you've tried all this!
We will check around the pipes but the damp wall isn't directly close to any of them - I suppose it could travel. Vegetation around leaks makes sense too, I'll check around and get back to you.

Watching, very interested.

Just noticed this

"The wall is an internal wall on both sides"

Suggests a plumbing leak in the floor. Is it a concrete floor?

Morning, Yes it is a concrete floor, the rest of the floors are floorboards. It was concrete when we moved in 40 years ago.

Have you got a water meter?

Imagine a line drawn between the outdoor stopcock, and the indoor stopcock under where the kitchen sink used to be when the house was built.

Is the damp patch near this line?

Hi again, thanks for your time on this issue.
We do not have a water meter.
There aren't any water pipes under the floor.
The damp patch is not anywhere near the position of the stopcock line you mention.
Your thoughts and 'mental' investigations have resulted in us giving the issue much further thought, reviewing all that has happened - it was a long time ago when it all started.
We are wondering if it is connected to the removal of the solid fuel stove or rather the concrete plinth it sat on which came out from the problem damp wall - which was not damp then.
When my husband removed the plinth he dug it well out in order to put a damp proof membrane underneath where it had been and then back filled the concrete kitchen floor with more concrete going up to the problem wall.
The trouble started some time after this. The wall has been addressed by two different trades people. My husband has since removed the plaster and injected the bricks and re plastered. But this has had little effect and the damp problem is back. Every time the problem returns it starts from the base of the wall where the stove was located and radiates out along the bottom of the wall. But the first time it happened it did go further up the wall in a semi circle shape but this has not happened since and the plaster above is solid.

And yet the water is coming from somewhere.

An internal wall is not likely to be rain, or even drains. If the other floors are wooden you can have a look underneath to see if the ground is wet.

There is a test you can do in case there is an old forgotten pipe. Sometimes old stoves and backboilers heated hot water.

The pictures of the internal wall, are they pipes running across the skirting ?

you say damp, is it the flaking bubbling paint that makes you say that?
have you had a moisture meter on the wall ( Aldi sell them now and again, probably Screwfix ) to confirm?

That first outside picture you took, some of the roof tiles look a bit strange running down from the chimney? I'm not an expert but just noticed it - we had a wonky tile on our roof and ended up with tide marks around a window - thankfully the guy who rendered the house was smart and found it, it was so slight it was hardly noticeable