heatpumps anyone?

[Frazzled2207]

My husband is very keen on the heatpump idea, I'm not against it in theory but from my understanding it's a lot of money and disruption and the cost saving is not all that significant. We would be doing it mostly however to reduce our carbon footprint - we would like to get off gas entirely. If it makes any difference our house is 15 years old and fairly well insulated and having just moved here we don't currently intend to move again, ever.

Interested to hear if anyone else has done it. The firms we have approached seem to be keen to put us off unless we're building an entirely new house or doing a major renovation job (i.e. moving out during the process).

@cupofdecaf how on earth did to 35,113kWhr (I assume you mean kilo watt hours)? We have a five bedroom detached house with a family of four and used 10,500kWhr last year for all electric heating, cooking, light etc. We do not have gas.

That's the amount the installation company said. It's also very close to what a second company suggested.
It's 3000 sq foot 4 bed house but apx 25 years old self build so well insulated.
Shame really as we're having solar panels put in so we were hoping to get it all off gas and much more eco friendly.
Might just replace the old boiler with something more efficient.

Also questioning 35113 that seems insane.
Sounds like the installation company are trying to put you off tbh. Try another one.

@cupofdecaf oops "how on earth did you get to".

Also your maths isn't right, if an ASHP outputs 9000kWhr per year it will typically draw less than 3000kWhr from the grid at an efficiency of 3 and many have much higher.

ASHPs work like a fridge in reverse, they draw air in, take the heat from the air and put it into water, the now cold air goes back outside and the hot water is pumped through a tank or radiators in your house.

@Frazzled2207

Also questioning 35113 that seems insane. Sounds like the installation company are trying to put you off tbh. Try another one.

We've had two and they came out with similar numbers. Even if we cut it by 1/3 as has been suggested as a more reasonable, that's still 6500 a year for just the heating and hot water when we currently do everything for under 4000. With a new boiler hopefully it'd be less. Solar panels would help but they'd produce less energy in the winter when we'd use the heat pump the most. I'm going to look at the numbers again to check I've not moved a decimal place or so emerging daft but I've had several people look and do the sums and all come back shocked with the same answer.

[quote Daftasabroom]@cupofdecaf oops "how on earth did you get to".

Also your maths isn't right, if an ASHP outputs 9000kWhr per year it will typically draw less than 3000kWhr from the grid at an efficiency of 3 and many have much higher.

ASHPs work like a fridge in reverse, they draw air in, take the heat from the air and put it into water, the now cold air goes back outside and the hot water is pumped through a tank or radiators in your house.[/quote]
I'll check if it's input or out put. I can't believe they'd sell them if they cost that much to run

This is what the quote says. Have I misunderstood?

With oil you usually ime run it for a few hours morning and evening. With a heat pump radiators are cooler and you run it longer. Surely your electric bill rises if you are running the pump for much longer. Or on and off all day and night like some have mentioned.

@cupofdecaf our house is about 180m2 so approximately 2/3 the size of yours and very well insulated even by current standards. Our heat load is about 7kW and annual total would be around 15000kWhr (so more than now but we wouldn't be relying on electric fan heaters). Sadly despite being built in the 90's unless your insulation was over specified by the standards of the day, your home won't be well insulated. I'd argue that even current standards aren't good enough. You have a big house that isn't very well insulated do it looks like the quotes are correct.

Do you have a copy of the EPC that should have been done prior to the quote?

I'm looking into it, 15 year old house. Pretty warm on only 2 hours heating a day so think we should be good to simply swop for our boiler. We already have a tank so was told it would take half a day to install, though we are looking at solar panels and a battery.

@cupofdecaf are you sure your heating and DHW is currently 4000kWhr? Or is that your current electricity use?

[quote Daftasabroom]@cupofdecaf our house is about 180m2 so approximately 2/3 the size of yours and very well insulated even by current standards. Our heat load is about 7kW and annual total would be around 15000kWhr (so more than now but we wouldn't be relying on electric fan heaters). Sadly despite being built in the 90's unless your insulation was over specified by the standards of the day, your home won't be well insulated. I'd argue that even current standards aren't good enough. You have a big house that isn't very well insulated do it looks like the quotes are correct.

Do you have a copy of the EPC that should have been done prior to the quote?[/quote]
Energy rating is currently a C (close to being a D) but with solar panels and a modem combi boiler it'd still be a C but 1 point off being a B.
I think maybe it's not as well insulated as we thought and it's a large house to heat. New combi boiler it is then

[quote Daftasabroom]@cupofdecaf are you sure your heating and DHW is currently 4000kWhr? Or is that your current electricity use?[/quote]
Our current gas and electric bill is just under £4000 per year for everything on the current price cap that can in at the start of April. To run the heat pump alone it would be apx £9831 a year and that would just be heating and hot water.
We're adding solar panels soon but with the roof size and angle of the roof we wouldn't make enough to off set much of the heat pump so are hoping we can use that to cover the washing machine, computers etc in the summer.

Is it not the case that they are phasing out gas boilers in around 10 years anyway? So when your current boiler dies we'll all have to go electric.

@LizzieMacQueen

Is it not the case that they are phasing out gas boilers in around 10 years anyway? So when your current boiler dies we'll all have to go electric.

Yes, but as the video I linked explained, you aren't using the electricity for space heating directly.

I'm quite allergic to greenywash bollocks - you can shove your wind and solar where the sun don't shine.

But ASHP and GSHPs seem to be the real deal. Mix that with decent insulation and reducing commuting, and you could have a very quick (i.e.

@cupofdecaf it's a bit vague but the message suggests an output 35,000kWhr pa. This means that at an efficiency of 3.5 you would draw 10,000kWhr pa or £2,800 at £0.28 per kWhr cap. 35,000kWhr of gas would cost £2,450 - oil or calor would be much more.

@DGRossetti why do you believe wind and solar is bollocks?

What concerns me is where al the electric will come from what with electric cars also becoming more popular , they have talked about shortages etc so when we all pile home , charge our cars ( those that are lucky to have a drive , the rest of us god knows what will happen) it will just heat the grid

@worriedatthistime

What concerns me is where al the electric will come from what with electric cars also becoming more popular , they have talked about shortages etc so when we all pile home , charge our cars ( those that are lucky to have a drive , the rest of us god knows what will happen) it will just heat the grid

Well it won’t be from the coal fired power stations which have been shut down apart from a couple over the last few years.

Nor will it be from the on shore wind turbines because boris has scrapped plans to double those.

So I guess from increasing off shore turbines and the plan for more nuclear power stations in a decade.

I'm looking at heat pumps for my 5 bed 60's renovation. It needs to be quiet so as not to disturb neighbours and not ridiculously pricey to run. Anyone who is happy with their ashp, who you mind telling us the make and model please? Very grateful 😊

@worriedatthistime @QuebecBagnet offshore wind capacity is planned to increase by 500% within the next decade. Solar is due to increase by 200%. Add floating wind in the Celtic sea, a little wave and solar and we're looking okayish. Replace gas heating with ASHPs, more WFH, efficiency improvements etc. and it is doable.

@worriedatthistime

What concerns me is where al the electric will come from what with electric cars also becoming more popular , they have talked about shortages etc so when we all pile home , charge our cars ( those that are lucky to have a drive , the rest of us god knows what will happen) it will just heat the grid

Electric cars are predominantly charged overnight, using surplas energy already available in the grid.

ASHP used properly are programmed differently to conventional heating, so on all day using a lower consistent amount of energy throughout the day, as compared to gas boilers where everyone switches them on for a short burst in the morning and evening. So the demands on the grid from ASHP will be there but not as extreme as you imply.

@cupofdecaf

So we've just done some sums and we won't be getting a heat pump. Estimate use for a heat pump is 35,113kw (that's just the heat pump not lights and tv etc). The current price cap is 0.28p per kw. That would cost us £9,832.64 a year to run! Currently our combined gas and electric (everything - lights, computers, tv heating etc) is expected to be just under £4000 per year. That everything and we've not paid for a heat pump. Those costs are based on the new price cap.

Does anyone think I've done the sums wrong? If not it's bonkers for the government to be encouraging these things.

There is no chance that’s right. We’ve normally used about 9000kwh for our heat pump and all other electrics. That’s with the thermostat set at a constant 22c.

I really wouldn’t get one unless you are going to put solar pv on your roof at the same time.
We have a 4 bed bungalow, 10 years old very well insulated and the ashp costs £8 a day to run at this time of year. If the temp over night drops below freezing it’s £12. The house would be warm if I turned the room stats up to 17 or 18 but I dread to think what the electricity bill would be. We’ve got the wood burner going full tilt to get the house to comfortable temperature. We do have underfloor heating.
We don’t find it noisy but I suspect the neighbours do.
The previous occupants used 12500kwh a year and their heating costs were £1875 (15p per kWh). We could only get a supply at 36p a kWh so it will cost us £4500. We are looking at solar pv to reduce the cost. I’m also considering small scale wind generation.
I am not going for batteries as they require an inverter charger to ensure they are cycled correctly, need maintenance and for the cost they don’t last that long. I have lived off grid before so I have experienced life on batteries and two hours of genny a day. If you go down that root you really need to be looking at getting a gas fridge freezer as batteries drain really fast on heavy using items. Basically you get internet, tv and lights.

Rang the guy that did the quote and I was right when I thought £10k was mad. So it produces 35000 somethings but uses just about 1/3 of that. So it's about 3.5k to run a year on the current price cap.