Page 2 | Feeling concerned about our buyers

lobsterz · 05/04/2022 15:30

Mumsnet seems to think that drive-by /desktop surveys are a thing but our lender went straight to an actual valuation survey at the property and research elsewhere has confirmed that in this market that is very common right now. I agree that spending money on a homebuyer's survey before the mortgage is confirmed is odd but they might just be overexcited. Not clear how you think that the lender survey is somehow something that your buyers have made happen? That's up to the lender, not them. Also, surely if the lender thinks they offered too much then any other buyer at that price will have the same issue - again, not really the buyer's fault? You may just find you can't get that price, other than from a cash buyer. Isn't there a lot of downvaluing going on right now because the market is nuts?

Responsiveroo · 05/04/2022 15:32

They sound keen, on your property AND moving quickly

I suspect the problem is that whilst they can afford what they’ve offered

Neither surveyor agrees with the value

SW1amp · 05/04/2022 15:38

You are overthinking this and also verging into being ‘vendor from hell’ territory…

Don’t underestimate how pushy the EA can be to get the ball rolling with legals and valuations once an offer is accepted.
It’s quite possible the agent has been leaning on them to get it booked and done

When I bought my current house, we viewed it in February and offered in March, but conditional on moving in august as our buyers were locked into a rental contract until then

The agents were still on our case immediately to get the contracts drafted and surveys done to show we were serious buyers…

And re their borrowing potential, a good credit score and 70% LTV will probably mean a couple can borrow 4 times joint income without too much hassle
That’s £62k between them, so in reach for 2 ‘normal’ jobs

Idontevenknow · 05/04/2022 15:38

None of this sounds worrying to me

I would be concerned if I was the buyer though

Original poster

parkrunner1977 · 05/04/2022 16:13

We have been upfront about our position from the beginning with the EA, our original plan was to wait to sell once the other house was ready but we were persuaded to market now. We had trusted that all this same info was passed on by the EA but today it seems that may not be the case.

We are not expecting the refurb to take more than 2 or 3 months but until we actually start the work and kitchen/bathroom/carpets/wallpaper etc is stripped out we don't know what we may find underneath. We have factored in time to allow for any potential unforeseen problems but even the best laid plans can be delayed.

Obviously the EA would be kept fully informed of all progress, we do not want to be the aforementioned 'vendors from hell', and wouldn't want to make our buyers wait any longer then absolutely necessary.

I was just surprised that they had instructed the surveys so soon (and I know the lender one is out of their control). Things have moved a lot quicker than I expected from their side so yes I am probably over thinking everything. With the two sales in the chain being in house the agent might well be trying to push things along already, I don't know.

Hopefully the survey results will be back with the buyers next week and if there are any problems with the values we'll just deal with it then.

OP posts:

Daisydoesnt · 05/04/2022 16:25

Actually I'd have a completely different take on this. If I were your buyers I'd crack on and get the survey done too: better to find out now if there's something wrong with the house, than leave it a number of weeks to find out. If there is something wrong with your house (sorry OP, not saying that to be rude!) and I have to pull out, I'd rather that happen sooner than later. They can get back out there looking this month rather than in June/ July when there will be even less on the market.

Daisydoesnt · 05/04/2022 16:26

Also the sooner you get on and exchange the better, even if you agree that completion is until another 8 weeks (or whatever) after that.

ReadyToMoveIt · 05/04/2022 16:43

Why wouldn’t they do the survey quickly? They need to know whether any issues are flagged up so that they know whether they definitely want to proceed. Perfectly normal.

namechange30455 · 05/04/2022 16:50

@parkrunner1977

Morning all

We agreed a sale on our property two weeks ago. Offer was £12k over asking price and from buyers that have sold to a FTB (3 total in chain with us included). Same EA being used for our sale & our buyers sale so all in house. We are buying a property to refurb separately from our sale and had explicitly told the EA that we would not be completing on our house until the other one is ready for us to move into (estimated end of July/Aug).

Within 4 days of agreeing the offer the buyers had instructed a surveyor for a HB survey which took place yesterday. I was surprised they had done that so soon in the process. I then had a call from another surveying firm yesterday to say their mortgage lender required an in person survey on the property as well!

The lender desk top/drive by valuations obviously aren't coming back high enough so a surveyor visit is required. It also means that they instructed & paid for their own survey before even having applied for/received a mortgage offer which to me is very strange. You wouldn't normally spend money without knowing you are actually able to proceed on the property surely?

I spoke to the EA earlier to try to find out what the buyers situation is and was told they have 10% in savings, 20% equity in their house, so would need a 70% LTV mortgage. That sounds low enough but the monetary value is well over £250k. Now I obviously don't know anything about their finances or what they do for a living etc but they are buying upwards so that to me would be a big commitment. Especially when you add in all the rises in living costs that kicked in this month.

My gut feeling is that they have offered more than they should have and they are going to try to renegotiate the price. The EA also said on their file notes it says they submitted their best & final offer saying they want to complete asap which specifically contradicts our stance.

Am I being over cynical?

I think it says the opposite - they must be pretty confident their mortgage is going to be approved to fork out the money for the survey.

If they only need 70 percent LTV then the mortgage company will only care if the house is worth significantly less than what they've offered.

250k isn't an enormous mortgage and it sounds like it's a couple. You sound sceptical that they can afford it. Do you have some sort of preconceived ideas about how much they earn?

Original poster

parkrunner1977 · 05/04/2022 16:56

Not at all, I don't know them & haven't met them. It's more about the house value, that they've over offered on what the mortgage company will think it's worth. As I said in my last post we'll just have to see if they come back to renegotiate when the surveys are back. Not expecting any issues to flag in regards to the house as it's only a few years old.

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HomeHomeInTheRange · 05/04/2022 17:18

When I sold and bought last year the EAs were accepting offers conditionally: once an offer was accepted they would stop marketing it but you had a certain timeframe to commission a survey and provide details of your solicitors. If you missed the timeframe they would re-open viewings. But back then (when everyone was in Beat the SDLT Holiday, you could commission a survey but had to wait weeks for it to be carried out.

The EAs wanted buyers to demonstrate commitment. I guess your EAs have done the same but surveys are happening faster?

Responsiveroo · 05/04/2022 17:34

Well they’d be daft not to try and renegotiate if both surveyors are of the opinion they’ve offered too much.

And if you refuse, then withdraw, you will face the same situation with any future buyer

carefullycourageous · 05/04/2022 17:52

I'm trying to clarify with the EA that they made the buyers fully aware of our onward situation because I don't want that to cause any problems.

Be careful of making trouble. The more they spend on your property the more committed one would expect them to be.

I still do not understand your problem, they are behaving normally IMO! The best thing for you is a quick change of mind if that is what is going to happen.

I return to my first answer - I think you need to try to calm down and ride it out, the process is hideous, you can control very little.

Original poster

parkrunner1977 · 05/04/2022 18:16

Maybe it's more of a feeling that we are going to be disappointed rather than it being a concern. As I said the EA persuaded us to list now rather than wait as we had originally planned. They managed all the viewings and potential buyers in such a way to make things go to best and final offers and in the process built up our expectations. We were made an offer way above what we had imagined so if it ends up having to be dropped that would be a blow. As you say it's out of our control. It may very well all be fine.

The EA did call back though to say that the mortgage LTV needed is actually 80%, what she told me this morning about 70% was incorrect. Also confirmed the buyers are also fully aware of our onward sitiation and are fine about it so that's good.

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carefullycourageous · 05/04/2022 18:45

Maybe it's more of a feeling that we are going to be disappointed Yes, the whole process is anxiety-inducing and disappointment is a very real risk. I really hope it goes OK for you, good luck!

ReadyToMoveIt · 05/04/2022 18:50

An 80% LTV is perfectly normal. We bought our house with 90% LTV and a £300k mortgage.

FTEngineerM · 05/04/2022 18:54

I’d be a bit miffed if I knew someone we were buying the house off was questioning our affordability based on the fact we were ‘buying up’. If they’ve saved 10% deposit along with 20% equity in their house the bank is looking at it as a ‘can I recoup 250k for this’ and the answer is much more likely to be yes if that’s only 70% of its current market value.

Getting their own survey is ok; they’ll almost certainly get the mortgage as long as it’s usual construction and their finances are as they described.

Original poster

parkrunner1977 · 05/04/2022 19:02

@FTEngineerM

I’d be a bit miffed if I knew someone we were buying the house off was questioning our affordability based on the fact we were ‘buying up’. If they’ve saved 10% deposit along with 20% equity in their house the bank is looking at it as a ‘can I recoup 250k for this’ and the answer is much more likely to be yes if that’s only 70% of its current market value.

Getting their own survey is ok; they’ll almost certainly get the mortgage as long as it’s usual construction and their finances are as they described.

I'm not questioning whether they can afford it, I know nothing about them. It's whether they have over offered and the surveys don't value the house in line so they will need to renegotiate the price. The EA gave me the wrong information this morning, total deposit is 20% so the LTV is 80%. If the price is dropped we'll be very disappointed.

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carefullycourageous · 05/04/2022 19:10

If you are not in a rush, and you feel the house is worth more, you can remarket.

If the house is genuinely not worth it, you would be wise to renegotiate anyway.

Moancup · 05/04/2022 19:16

Have you ever dealt with estate agents before?

Of course they’re going to push you to market asap when you approach them. There is nothing in it for them to let you hang around, potentially going to a different agent, while you prepare yourself to think about selling. It’s entirely possible they have glossed over your time frame with the buyers, possibly on the gamble that by the time it becomes apparent the buyers will conclude that it’s still quicker to stick with you than starting afresh elsewhere.

The buyers seems like the most sensible party here!

Starseeking · 05/04/2022 19:21

This sounds normal to me.

I'm currently buying a house, and my lender wouldn't finalise the offer until I had the house address.

When I had the house address, they then instructed a mortgage valuation survey, while I instructed the Homebuyers.

Due to availability (although in my view they should really have just used one RICS person to do both), the surveys are being carried out separately, 3 weeks apart, Homebuyers being first to take place. Nothing to do with not liking value given!

My lender also does the survey last thing in the process, so it could be that they've already agreed affordability, and this is the final step before offer.

FTEngineerM · 05/04/2022 19:30

I really wouldn’t worry about it @parkrunner1977, we’ve had ours valued 3 times since Christmas and we’re buying a house (newbuild) if they have 80% ltv then most mortgage companies have products that go up to 90% and the big ones go up to 95% so if they do value it less than what they’ve offered using your example figures here: if 250k is 70%, 10% is 35.7k and 100% is 357k.
80% is 286k meaning they have 71k there. If the mortgage valuation comes in at, what, 340 they’ll be fine. They’ll just get a higher ltv mortgage product.

Unless you’re worried the valuation will say something wild like 180k?

Margaretmatcher · 05/04/2022 19:42

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Original poster

parkrunner1977 · 05/04/2022 19:50

@FTEngineerM

I really wouldn’t worry about it *@parkrunner1977*, we’ve had ours valued 3 times since Christmas and we’re buying a house (newbuild) if they have 80% ltv then most mortgage companies have products that go up to 90% and the big ones go up to 95% so if they do value it less than what they’ve offered using your example figures here: if 250k is 70%, 10% is 35.7k and 100% is 357k. 80% is 286k meaning they have 71k there. If the mortgage valuation comes in at, what, 340 they’ll be fine. They’ll just get a higher ltv mortgage product.

Unless you’re worried the valuation will say something wild like 180k?

Thanks for that example, that has put my mind at ease as it hadn't occurred to me about the change of LTV product if it did down value. I was just thinking that the lender would refuse to give them the amount they'd requested and they would ask us to drop the price. I wouldn't expect a huge difference in value if there is any, maybe £20k or so as you'd said above.

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HomeHomeInTheRange · 05/04/2022 20:39

We were made an offer way above what we had imagined so if it ends up having to be dropped that would be a blow

Well, not really, you would just be closer to where you originally thought.

If the survey downvalues it for these buyers, the same would happen with others.

But the good thing is that with these buyers there is enough margin to allow for a down value because of the LTV.