Renegotiating after survey

[SpidersAreShitheads]

Hi

We're in the process of buying a house that we really love. We've just had the building survey done today and it's thrown up quite a few problems.

We were aware the house needs a bit of work, and we're planning to extend/renovate so we weren't too worried about the cosmetic work which was visible.

However, there are bigger problems which have been reported.

The first is the windows - lots won't open and the surveyor says the majority (around 12/13) need replacing.

Secondly, there's damp in both the downstairs rooms and in a number of the walls. The guttering outside isn't set up properly and the surveyor thinks this may be contributing but possibly also a disintegrating membrane under the flooring.

The thing is, we were thinking about underfloor heating anyway - so we'd need a new membrane. Plus at least one of the two external walls were going to be coming down for the extension - it's not a massive deal to take both down and reconfigure our plans (it's a wide house) but it will obviously bump up the cost. The surveyor says that taking down the external walls and redoing the membrane should sort the damp. There are three walls inside affected by the damp - but the membrane should sort. Also, the damp is fairly minimal, only two inches off the ground.

We definitely don't want to lose the house. There are other things which are problematic but on the whole, they fall within areas we are going to renovate so it doesn't matter.

We don't even mind about the drainage/guttering as that will be reconfigured with the extension. It's the damp inside and the windows - we weren't aware of either and they're both going to add a considerable cost.

The vendor seems really lovely and we don't want to piss them off. We really want the house, and don't want to seem as if we're taking advantage. We offered £17k over the asking price so I don't want them to think we never had any intention of paying that in full. In all honesty, I could really do without having to renegotiate the cost and was gutted when these things were reported.

Does it sound reasonable to ask the sellers to drop their price a bit? And if so, how does it work - as we're doing building work, it won't cost as much to sort as it would have done otherwise but it's going to mean changing our plans and more steel joists etc with an extra external wall removed, plus windows.

I'm so worried we're going to piss them off just by enquiring about a price drop!!!

Following with interest as we’ve found ourselves in a similar predicament. Damp and possible new floors along with a full rewire. Plus, the likelihood of needing new windows!
The survey valuation doesn’t match our offer. The mortgage broker has suggested we talk to the survey about cost implications and then, if we want to proceed, renegotiate from the offered/accepted price. They have implied we are in a very strong position to do so.
As we’ve only discovered this problem today, we are going to take a few days to research and re evaluate our position.

I think it entirely depends on the vendor and how in demand the house is.

Friends were buying a flat that the building inspection revealed had $15,000 Aus dollars ( in Melbourne) needed to be spent on it .
They took 15,000 off their offer and still got the flat because the seller had moved to another state and wanted everything sorted.

Remember, surveys are always quite negative as they are there to find potential problems and err very much on the side of caution.

Personally I wouldn't worry about the windows, yes they will need replacing in a few years but not urgently and the price will almost certainly have been set with this in mind. Our survey said the same and we will sort eventually, but the old ones do the job for now even if they aren't as efficient as they could be.

The damp would worry me more, especially if there are visible signs. If just high damp readings I wouldn't be so concerned, but if there is water actually coming in I'd probably ask them to do a more in depth survey on that just so that you know what the problem is for definite and whether it will be easily fixed or if it is bigger than it seems.

If the windows don't open then they do need replacing or atleast fixing urgently... what if there was a fire?
Did the windows look reasonably new when you viewed? We're you going to change then anyway?
Sounds like a bit of a doer upper, and if you are knocking walls down anyway, I would see the other damp issues as part of that sort of work.
Sounds like you just want a bit of money off to add to your refurb funds to me! Is it worth annoying the seller and potentially losing the house? And you having to start all over again. It seems like you would be talking about a couple of thousand pounds reduction, in the grand scheme of things I would let it go.

None of the windows open? Did he try them all? I would speak to the vendor about that because it sounds very odd

Sorry you said lots won't open, not none. And need replacing. Why? Is that something you could reasonably have noticed when you were looking round?

@Alexalee @Clymene Apparently the windows don't open - not quite sure what's going on there, but the vendor is aware and has said he will get them fixed before we exchange. But the surveyor said he's not sure that he'll be able to do that, and even if he does, they will still need replacing as there's gaps.

We only had a 15 minute slot to look around as it was effectively an open day. We were the first appointment and we didn't even get that long because they couldn't find the keys at first! There was a bidding war and it went to best and final offers.

I've only got the verbal report so far - it took the surveyor an hour and a half on the phone yesterday to talk through everything. I have 4 A4 sides of paper of notes!!

Cosmetically it's a wreck and that's OK. Things like cupboards in the kitchen not opening, no sealing round the bath so water could leak down and damage ceiling, no insulation in the curved part of upstairs bedrooms causing condensation and peeling wallpaper etc. All that kind of stuff I've just ignored.

I really, really, really am not looking to try and boost our refurb budget by getting money off. I would 1000% rather not bother but my DM/DP and stepdad all think the results warrant a request. The surveyor has suggested the same.

We have an architect and a builder already involved (it's a complicated situation as we're building an annexe) and I'm going to get the opinion of my very lovely builder today.

I have no idea if it's reasonable or not to ask for a reduction. The surveyor seemed to think that based on his report, a reduction would be warranted.

No actual water coming in. The drainage is a bloody mess and would potentially make the damp much worse but again, we're extending so that'll naturally be sorted out as part of it all.

Damp is only downstairs in the two rear rooms, but also on one internal wall which is opposite the external wall so surveyor isn't sure why that is damp but thinks potentially it's coming up off the floor (rising damp). He's going to get a second opinion from his boss before writing the report.

The rooms didn't smell damp or look damp, but it's causing the wallpaper to peel. Because the house is in a poor state of repair (think scribbles over the door/one door off its hinges/deep gouges on stairs and window sills from dogs) I assumed it just hadn't been cared for, rather than realising it was actually due to the damp.

It's a doer-upper anyway, but if we have to knock down an extra external wall due to damp and replace membranes that will all mean more money than we expected to pay. The house was in huge demand, and I really don't want to lose it or piss off the vendor. And I don't want to look as if we're jumping on the smallest thing to get money off because that's genuinely not the case.

Will see what my builder says - we went round for a second visit after our offer was accepted and spent about 30-40 minutes there with them so he's had a good look round. We didn't think to try the windows to see if they opened! The boiler apparently isn't working either, but again, didn't think to ask. Vendor has said that is being fixed too.

Following as I suspect we might be in a similar position soon. We are buying an older property, it's not a wreck but there's a lot that needs doing cosmetically. However, if the survey flags up something structural, we will need to walk away or renegotiate, depending on the issue.

When we went for a second viewing we tested all the windows. Several were painted up at the bottom (sash windows), presumably because they rattled, which didn't bother me. I also turned on all the taps to test the water pressure.

It's very hard to take in all the features of a property in a short visit. I've spent longer test driving a second hand car than I did going over the property we are buying, even though the house costs 100 times more than the car.

If it's a doer upper then you offered over the asking price with that in mind. It sounds like the house was in demand so the vendor may go to the second highest bidder if they feel this is the start of being messed around.

It all depends how much you want the property, OP.

Property, and anything else for that matter, costs as much as people are prepared to pay for it.

There is always the option of renegotiating after a poor surveyor's report as the Estate Agent agent won’t have been aware of issues with the property when they valued it for sale, so when new information comes to light that has a bearing on the value, asking for a discount is not an unreasonable request.

The vendor seems really lovely and we don't want to piss them off
You need to lose that mindset. You are doing business with them, not trying to be besties.

Thanks for all the replies.

With the chance to think about this properly, we're inclined just to leave it and go ahead with the purchase as it is.

I'm waiting to speak to my builder before we make a decision but we're 99% certain that's probably going to be the way we go.

If we weren't going to be knocking walls down and ripping up flooring it might be different but as we're going to be doing so much work, I don't think it matters so much.

And also, we did one of those online calculator things re value and even putting the house in the poorest state of repair (which is probably a bit harsh) we are still getting it for £10k UNDER what it's apparently worth.

We definitely, definitely don't want to lose it. Because we're building an annexe we need a property that has space to build out from - and this is a very unusual corner plot which has an incredible amount of space. We wouldn't easily find anything like this again, and not at the same price. Plus if we DID have to start again, my DM would probably lose her buyer - and it took her 5 months to get any offers (weird house).

@Thesefeetaremadeforwalking - you're absolutely right. I probably wasn't clear - what I was trying to say is that they've been really accommodating with our requests (builder/architect and 5 hour survey) and I don't want to piss them off so they think "sod this, we'll pull out and start again". We were in a best and final offers situation and only got this house by the skin of our teeth - they'd have no problem in finding another buyer, and it would probably go for even more now than when we offered! They're not buying either so there's no worry about losing purchases. So that's sort of where I was going with it - we've got everything to lose and I'm not sure it's worth it given the fact we're going to be ripping up most of the problem areas anyway...

@Sonofbarney - that's it in a nutshell. That's why I now think we're just going to say sod it, and stick with the price. Just waiting to talk to builder first to confirm.

Knocking down a wall is not a usual response to damp

How old is the house

What are the windows made of?

@SpidersAreShitheads
To be honest, you didn’t have time to look at the house and now there are more issues. It’s not surprising as the owner hasn’t looked after it. I’m surprised there were not bigger issues such as the roof!

The vendor won’t fix anything. Prices offered are usually subject to survey. The owner, by the sounds of it could easily find another buyer. In the circumstances I think you have to suck it up and pay what you offered or walk away. The windows will cost you loads but what alternative do you have? If you cannot find another house and want this one, you have little wriggle room.

I would bet a lot of money that when you start building other unforeseen issues will arise too. They always do! So make sure your pockets are deep!

@Handsnotwands - The house is 25ft wide and has two rooms next to each other. We're adding a 15ft extension that goes the full width. I haven't seen the architects plans yet but we were definitely going to be knocking down the wall to one of the rooms, and maybe the other one too? But maybe we would have kept one. We're going primarily open plan but also want a utility/shower room and study built into the space. If knocking down the second wall is the cheapest and easiest way to deal with the damp and works with the renovation, then it might just be the best solution.

I realise it sounds rather dramatic but it's more the case of just tweaking our plans to get rid of the damp quickly and easily. It's not quite as radical as it might first sound due to the extent of building work!

@TizerorFizz - I'm worried about what else might crop up too!!! We don't have loads of surplus in our budget. If things crop up then parts of the building work will just have to wait (such as the second shower room eg).

But you're exactly right. The house hasn't been looked after, lovely though the owner is. The dogs have basically chewed and scratched every surface - not surface scratches, we're talking deep gouges - doors are covered with scribbles and writing. One of the doors is off its hinges. You get the picture. But looking beyond that, it's got good bones and amazing space. We've bought it more for the potential rather than what's there now. Relieved that structurally it's OK.

Re the windows, thinking about it, I could live with those for a while and save up. The windows in my current house are shit and need replacing so it's probably not much different.

I haven't spoken to my builder yet so will still get his opinion but we're all definitely thinking that it's not worth the hassle and the risk of losing it, so just to go ahead. Will have a good look through the written survey report when it arrives at the weekend.

The damp could be as a result of cracked sewers or leaking water supply pipe. Replacement of these could be expensive. That's not taking into consideration replacement of floor joists floor boards replastering and skirting boards etc.
I would get contractors out to quote.

Then renegotiate.

I think you'd be mental to renegotiate on a unique property that you're doing up anyway.

It's a sellers market. They could sell that house tomorrow. You could wait six months for a similar property to come along. For sure, rule out sewer problems and other serious stuff with your builder though.

Realistically, even in a buyers market, you would be sensitive about situation. I really, really can't get that people think they should take £££s off for a dodgy roof that's 120 years old and you can see wobbly ridges from across the street. Houses are not priced at immaculate condition, the price reflects the condition at the time. Do your due diligence but lots of stuff shouldn't be a surprise!

Over the time you live in a house 10-20k is negligible. You can easily "save" that by overpaying your mortgage or increase in prices. Monopoly money! I'd rather live in the right house and "overpay" a few grand than move somewhere in a rush and regret it.

Nothing wrong with meeting with the owner to share the survey, much easier to assess face to face. They might even offer to drop a few grand too. We sold to a ftb in 2011 and some minor stuff came back on her survey. We didn't drop the price but I threw in my furniture to sweeten the deal (I was buying a different style of house and the furniture was nice!). She'd kept most of the furniture when she sold last year (and I snooped on the Rightmove)

I think we may be in this position too. Our survey came back with quite a few reds and ambers and I'm worried about electrics and drainage etc. The house is at the top of our budget so won't be able to spend too much on repairs and I'm wondering whether we could knock a few grand off the price for a rewire etc. But it is a seller's market and I too am wary of pissing off the vendor. The house was up for sale for about two months which is a long time here, but she did get a couple of offers so she could probably find someone else if she wanted to. But then she would have the same problems with the potential new buyer, surely?

We've just spoken to the agent and we'll send a few guys over to do a couple of additional surveys to see what the situation really is. I really don't want to lose this house because it would probably mean losing our buyer too and we've already lost two in the past.

Sorry, no real advice here as we don't know what we're doing either. Good luck!

If you were planning on living in it before starting renovations then I would ask for a reduction to allow the windows to be fixed. But, from your recent post it sounds quite unliveable and you won't be doing that so in that case I would leave the offer as is.

@SpidersAreShitheads
I would wait for the full report. Sometimes surveyors recommend further inspections and this gives you more insight into issues. But more expense too of course. Getting to the bottom of what’s causing damp can be tricky but if you are renovation/extending you can put everything right. You should have a contingency budget though.

The survey report might say why the windows won’t open. Painted over? Mechanisms broken etc? You might even be able to free them and pray for a cool summer.