Simonstone, Burnley- worth moving to?

[isthishouseworthit]

We've decided to take the plunge and are considering moving out of London. We've got tiny children and have been looking at properties in Lancashire (I have family in the area). Has anyone ever heard of Simonstone in Burnley? I haven't and I lived in the area for two decades! Is the area worth a move with twin toddlers? Is it ideal for schools, etc.

It's not in Burnley. It's on the Padiham-Clitheroe road north of the M65, and virtually runs into Read.

It's not a bad place, if I recall. It's definitely rural (and white) compared to Burnley itself, in some pretty countryside. Small village primary school (120 pupils). One shop, one pub, not much else. Secondary schools you'd be looking at Clitheroe (including the Royal Grammar School) or Burnley.

What would put me off is that the traffic along the A671 is absolutely hideous during rush hour with severe bottlenecks in Read, and has been getting steadily worse over the last ten years (MiL used to drive through it daily, I have grown sick of the whinging). That, and you'd have to accept getting into a car for almost anything apart from a walk to the Spar. One the kids reach teenage years you'd be running a constant taxi service, and potentially covering considerable distances.

As what otherpeoplesteens says. But I would disagree about having to drive teens long distances. Simonstone about 15 mins from Burnley Centre less than 10mins from Hapton train station. From Hapton they can get a train to Burnley Manchester Road, which runs a direct line to Manchester. Not fast, but good enough for teens getting themselves around.

Would be a shift from London public transport availability though!

And I love the countryside around there, it is truly beautiful and relatively undiscovered (compared to Yorkshire dales and lake district honey pots). Are you wanting a rural lifestyle?

Shurl is quite correct that Burnley is close by and the public transport into it and beyond is serviceable by northern standards, in that it does at least exist. But if the children find their lives oriented more towards Whalley/Clitheroe as they reach secondary, then you'll struggle.

Personally, if I wanted to live around there I'd look more towards Barrowford, perhaps somewhere like Fence, but it depends on what other things you need to be by.

Yes Barrowford is lovely! Just avoid the floody bits! It has a lovely small town feel with some good bars and pubs and a few small supermarkets.

Fence is pricier and very rural feeling imo.

Or indeed live in Clitheroe itself, it's big enough that most of your kids social circle will be Clitheroe based imo

Yes, if you squint down the High Street so that you can't see the drizzle, Barrowford could be a very middle England, perhaps Cotswolds, town but with Booths instead of Waitrose.

I'd only want to live in Fence for the pub and its 1,000 or so gins.

Thank you all- really helpful information. I'm going to ask if the area is diversity friendly since my husband is not white and my children mixed-race with their father's colouring. I've heard some horrendous things regarding race relations of the neighbouring towns- does any of that take place in the local villages, ie. In Clitheroe, Fence, Whalley, Read or Simonstone?

I don't mean to cause offence. I just don't want my children to feel like there's something wrong with them because of the colour of their skin.

Right. I've never managed to post about race on MN without it being deleted so I'll keep this as factual and helpful in respect of the question posed as possible.

Unfortunately I'm not particularly well-connected to any of these small towns and villages but my wife was born and brought up in Burnley. She's mixed race, as am I, but we both 'pass' as white. My MiL still lives on the outskirts of Burnley and we are regular visitors.

Burnley itself has serious race issues, as does Blackburn and Nelson. Whilst the direct, hot elements of it have calmed down a lot since the race riots in June 2001 the hidden, latent stuff is still very much there. Brexit was singularly unhelpful, but illustrative, too: there is a large white 'left behind' working- and under-class caucus in Burnley which resents everything that isn't them. It is a BNP, and formerly UKIP, stronghold for a reason.

In my experience - and I am happy for others to share different ones - it's not a generalised race or diversity issue in the traditional whites versus 'others' sense. It is an Islamophobic environment which manifests itself as a wider anti-Pakistani sentiment. There is also a palpable sense of mutuality to it, none of which is helped by the fact that - in Burnley at least - the white and Pakistani communities live in isolationist ghettos right next to each other, with almost nothing in common. A close white friend of mine married a Brit-born Pakistani and both were effectively disowned by their families; they've moved to the heady inclusiveness of Birmingham.

Not everyone will consciously recognise it and fewer still will admit it, but places like Clitheroe, Whalley, and Barrowford are quite clearly 'white flight' places. I can say that with some certainty. I don't know Read and Simonstone or anyone living there, but - with less confidence - I imagine they are the same.

The few (white, middle class) people I know who live in these smaller places, and the many (white, middle class) ones in the larger towns who want to leave, generally don't have an issue with individual non-whites, but they don't want their own streets and neighbourhoods assimilated into creeping Islamification.

I couldn't tell you with any certainty if the anti-Pakistani sentiment also applies to Asians of Indian or Sri Lankan descent. I do know a brown (Indian) Mauritian in the area, married to a white with mixed race kids, who says he has no real problems. And similarly I couldn't tell you if racism is as much of a problem for black or oriental folk. I've seen nothing to suggest it is on anything like the same scale, or any worse than baseline UK race relations.

@Otherpeoplesteens thank you so much for your honesty. You have no idea what it means to me. My OH is PAkistani AND Muslim (a double whammy) and despite having grown up and lived in various cities, has always had racist abuse hurled his way. This may be outing but it's relevant so I'll mention it, he has family in Blackburn and his nephew attends a school locally and one day came home singing "Zaki the Blackey is a P*ki" referring to himself (clearly what other kids had said to him). He was 3 at the time. It breaks my heart that this kind of thing still happens and that even little children aren't spared racist abuse. I'd love to be close to family (my family is originally from Manchester and husbands family is Blackburn/Preston, etc.) but I don't want to expose my very young children to racism and the bitterness, resentment and anger from the majority white population.

It's shit, isn't it @isthishouseworthit ?

Clearly there are people living in mixed white-Pak households in the Ribble Valley, just as there presumably are up and down the length of the country. It's unfortunate that the only couple like this I know had to run from their own families; they actually managed to live in Wilpshere (small village on outskirts of Blackburn) for several years in relative harmony with their neighbours.

I'm also very sorry about your OH's nephew. It won't help, but for what it's worth my elder DD (4) is in nursery preschool with a mix of races and nationalities and there has never been a suggestion of the kind of issues you mention. We're in Manchester. So there is hope.

What I would say is that in some ways it's difficult to decouple the race issue from the class/prospects issue which to a certain extent is what was really at the heart of the Burnley race riots. It sucks, and I'm happy to be corrected by people who know better, but I suspect the posher and richer the area you move to, the less problems you're likely to have.

I can't really offer any more suggestions from here, but if you have specific questions I'll answer them if I can.

Have you thought about Rawtenstall? It's much more diverse ethnically, and there's everything you could want in the way of shops and services in a very small area, with good transport links and lots of great walks on your doorstep. I moved here five years ago and haven't regretted it for a moment.