Would we be crazy to take on a major project with 2 kids?

[jwilf]

Been looking for a house for almost a year now. We found one last year, moved into rented accommodation so as not to lose our buyer, then the vendor pulled out.

So now we've been in rented since October with our 2.5 DS and we have a new DD due at the end of May.

Just viewed a house yesterday which is a probate sale so no chain, I was excited about the potential of the house and the garden backs onto a large park with a gate giving direct access, which is great. It's a 4 bed 1930s semi with fairly generous proportions although the front lounge is a bit tight, no space for our dream L shaped sofa...

Anyway the house needs total renovation from top to bottom, it only has one toilet which is in a separate cubicle not even adjacent to the bathroom, which is very small and has a horrid avocado suite. It has some cracks in the brickwork around the front door which look worrying, it looks like the house has settled a bit in the corner, causing some uneven gaps around the windows by the door. More worrying, the staircase is wonky, the whole thing is tilted to the right so the treads are not level. Not sure if this indicates a structural problem in the house or if it is just the stairs that have shifted but either way will be pretty expensive to fix I'd imagine.

To maximise the potential of the house it really needs a rear kitchen extension and ideally a 2 storey side extension at the front (there is a set back garage with the 4th bedroom on top, this would fill in the space in front of it) which is what some similar houses in the street have done. That would give space for a lovely downstairs WC and utility room. But from reading the extension thread I'd guess this would cost at least £200k and we'd have to move out for the duration and get the builders to do absolutely everything, as we won't have time for DIY.

Also this would put the total spend way over our original budget, as the asking price is already at our budget (offers over £800k) although we wouldn't do the work straight away. But of course that means we would have to live with it in its current state for quite some time, with a newborn and a toddler.

I think we've pretty much decided not to make an offer but just wanted to get the mumsnet take on things and hear any similar stories...

I would also advise getting quotes to give a more realistic idea, atm, there are delays on getting people in, we have been trying to get a carpenter since October, and costs have risen sometime c50% over last 2 years with covid etc and less staff in the trade. So what people got things done for 2 years ago is not relevant, just depressing.

You can get a done house in New Malden/Worcester Park for 850k.

I was looking at this area in the summer for an investment property.

I viewed this one which went for £840k. Bigger square footage, nicely done, very nice views.

www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/detailMatching.html?prop=111913055&sale=14312749&country=england

What about this

or this this

or this this

OMG - so the buyer withdrew and our offer has now been accepted! I'm in a state of shock!

Congrats!

Why did they withdraw?!

Apparently they decided it was too much work!

Congrats! That house has AMAZING potential but is still liveable as is.. there may be scope for negotiations once your survey comes back!

That house is very overpriced for the area and condition. You should get a survey/valuation and detailed builders’ estimates ASAP.

This is a couple of streets away @ 850k for 400 sq ft more and doesn’t need work (but scope to extend).

www.primelocation.com/for-sale/details/60948863/

@jwilf Congrats! Honestly I think the garden and park access are worth a LOT to London families! I'm sure you can add lots of value.

What are your next steps? Best of luck with it :)

Lovely house and agreed (like everyone else) that you really don't need to do much to it at all for the next few years and always much better to live somewhere before you decide what to do. Lots of alternatives to doing a huge extension, converting the loft (if its possible) and/or garage are much much cheaper and would add value without so much expense. Hoping your survey comes out ok but I think you have done well to get it.

I was gonna say BID NOW it’ll be more expensive tomorrow… then saw that you got outbid… then saw that you won!

Very satisfying thread with a good beginning, middle and end

Good luck!

That is a beautiful house! We bought a doer upper. We don't regret it at all. We also had an avocado bathroom and a blue bathroom! The only thing I wish I'd checked was the showers. They were awful! I'd check them and budget to do them straight away.
The kitchen, like ours, is liveable even if it's out of date

OK so the survey came back and it's pretty bad...

The main thing is it confirms there has been subsidence, the corner of the house has subsided a bit as I thought. The surveyor suspects the drains and recommends a CCTV drain inspection. He says any necessary remedial work should be carried out immediately and also that the need for expensive underpinning cannot be ruled out.

The other major thing is the roof, he says it is at the end of its serviceable life and there is no underfelt so it should be replaced. Also some chimneystack repairs and some of the eaves joinery is decayed and needs repair.

Also there are signs of damp in the rear reception room apparently and it sounds like some replastering is needed as well as some external rendering repairs. He also says all ground levels should be 150mm below the damp proof course - wondering if that means the driveway should be lowered.

Oh and there's polystyrene ceiling tiles in the house and asbestos in the garage ceiling and possibly in the toilet cistern!

I can still see the potential of the house but I think I'd have to be insane to proceed at £842k. Trying to choose between 2 courses of action... either just pull out now, or contact the agent to see if the vendor would be open to negotiation before I go to the trouble of getting quotes and doing the drain survey.

Would be gutted to pull out but also I don't want to ruin myself!

I found it useful to call the surveyor and speak on phone and see what they advise re money off / pulling out. Some of it can be back covering rather than real issues, damp and roof are quite common ones to come up though can be real issues too. We were told new roof needed on our old one but in the end kept it and no issues 10 years later. Damp we had work done for around 2k but you need to research that well. I would be concerned with some of that but surveyor is best to advise.

It might be better to get some adults to do it.

Agree you need to chat with the surveyor.
We bought a v similar house and were advised it needed a new roof ASAP. The roof was fine for the five years we needed to save up for full extension. So you might get lucky.
The subsidence obviously should be addressed pdq.

Go back and tell them you are lowering your offer to £x whatever on account of structural work / issues that need to be fixed immediately. They can take or leave. We did this and got £5k off for the roof (admittedly 12 years ago but it worked)

Go for it OP, negotiate.

Yes speak to the surveyor on the phone, and outright ask them “Would you buy it?”, “Is it worth £842k the way it is now?”, “What’s really urgent?”. They’ll say stuff they’d never put in writing.

You could call damp specialists (not chemical injection specialists) to get quotes or an idea without them visiting. Discuss the content of the survey or email screenshots of it to them.

I do think this property is worth the time and effort for the plot size, house and location. But only you know what you can bear!

I have just been through very similar you just have to approach one bit at a time. Waiting to complete still. I discussed the survey with the surveyor in lots of detail and they answered lots of questions (from which I also learned a lot which is good for the job we’re taking on).

You’re in a strong position to negotiate given one buyer has pulled out already. And you never know, shoot the shot you won’t regret, if they turn you down now and the next buyer pulls out they might come back to you again!

Does the surveyor actually suspect the drains or did they just recommend a drain survey because they can’t see them? That’s what ours said. I’m not doing a drain survey.

Don’t think you can let damp put you off an old house.

I think you should renegotiate now with typical prices of asbestos removal (and replastering), joinery replacement, weatherproofing exterior where damp is, damp proof course (physical) and re flooring where damp is, subsidence remedial.

Thanks @AsbestosYayOrNay that's very helpful. I am intending to speak to the surveyor but unfortunately he is not available until last thing on Friday!

I did email the agent asking if the vendor was open to negotiation and of course he asked for a figure. But I don't really want to give a figure until I've spoken to the surveyor and got more of an idea of the cost.

When we had a bad survey I chatted to surveyor on phone he went through what was real and what was back covering and said to ask for £20k off and compromise at £10k and if they would not pull out so was quite useful. The £10k was about right but issues were a bit different. Our damp was about £2k but was 13 years ago or so, roof did not need work in end, chimney breast had been removed and left unsupported and that was £5k or so but much nicer after with lovely Victorian fireplace and also did need rewiring / electrics which was around £2k and gas safety things.

I bought a house that was almost unliveable. And we lived in it. The survey was awful.

There was limited choice at the time. And I fell in love with the house

And we have done things gradually, we have done the following:

New roof
New central heating
Rewire
New floors (Carpets, and sanding and waxing of floor boards downstairs)
New kitchen
New bathroom
Evicted the rats
Drains have been lived and a collapsed part fixed
Some new windows and front door
Lots of replastering.
There were polystyrene ceiling tiles everywhere.

It has taken five years so far. However it has been worth it. That house looks a lot more habitable than ours was. My children were about 8 when we moved in.

There were times when I could have cried, but it was right for us. If you don't need to do it all at the same time then save and do what is necessary.

Tbh it's the correct economic climate & the fact it's already expensive for what it is the potential underpinning would have me running for the hills!

in the not it's

OP, I agree with you that it needs the work. It’s incredibly dated. But we’ll looked after. If you are taking on a project, live somewhere else for the duration. The house is great and has lots of potential.