Howto find out if a block of flats has cladding / fire safery issues before making an offer?

[CatAndHisKit]

Is there a specific place/site where to find this, if anyone can advise?
I@ve tried just googling the blocks's name but nothing ccomes up.
It's a brick building with no cladding panels but has decorative wood cladding - small sections under windows etc.
I've heard that some blocks are fime re cladding but have to change other features internally.
I don't want to start paying olicitors before I find out. Also if it is minor but the certificate needed if I wante dto sell in future, are these easy enough to get within the next couple of years?
It's not the mortgage that' an issue for me, it's the potential repair and /or cetificate costs.

Op I don’t want to sound patronising but I really think you need to wise up. Getting an ESW1 “only” costs the amount of a survey. If that survey finds no defects and grants an clean bill of health. If the survey doesn’t, then it can literally cost millions of pounds to get the building in a state to grant it. AT THE LEASEHOLDERS’ EXPENSE. And it can take years and years. At missive inconvenience TO THE LEASEHOLDERS to get that work done.

What I’m saying is, if there is no ESW1 in place, walk away now. In fact, run.

How many floors does the building have?

Sorry just seen that it’s 4-5 storeys, building may well be exempt under 18 meters but a lot of mortgage lenders are still asking for EWS1 on any multi storey buildings. There are only 300 inspectors in the whole country, some council owned buildings have been waiting for literally years for their assessment as private sector are taking precedent.

@Bobinov sadly the fate of buildings under 18m is even more uncertain than those over due to Gove and this government’s obtusification

I mean, I wish I could just check myself directly - what if I comtat the management co, would they respond about all these points?

Depends.

I would get the name of the management company and look them up.

Even if there is no issues with the flat you should be doing this anyway as some management companies have terrible reputations.

“Even if there is no issues with the flat you should be doing this anyway as some management companies have terrible reputations.“

Often deservedly.

@BitOutOfPractice goes without saying.

Unfortunately it appears that some buyers really don't do their own extensive research on one of the biggest purchases they are going to make in their life.

@RedWingBoots most people buying these flats absolutely did do their research at the time but had no idea that this issue would affect them. Very few of them have moved on since the issues came to light simply because they are unsellable.

Please don’t put the blame on leaseholders for “not doing their research”. Blame the developers, architects, test houses, building control, contractors and materials suppliers who conspired to design, build and sign off unsafe buildings.

If I were selling a flat with an ESW1 it would be in the first line of my sales blurb. The fact that the OP is having to dig about to find one would suggest to me it hadn’t got one.

You are right to be suspcious of the estate agent.

The surveys for my block haven't been completed but one has just gone on the market saying EWS1 available. It isn't.

There is a huge backlog to get the surveys done (years in some cases) but not all blocks need them. > 18m in height to habitable floor level (not to roofline) is important definition.

Most 3-4 storey blocks will be lower than that.

Oh and I'm a director of our leaseholder management company.

The agents we employ to do the day to day management of our building initially tried to wing it with us about EWS1/ fire safety then after it became apparent their advice had been wrong they have now written and stated that they won't do anything else in this area apart from manage the payments to industry experts.

My fellow directors and I have been identifying contractors and managing the process ourself. My friend who lives in a similarly complex block had the same experience.

The rules and regulations are really complicated and your average property manger hasn't had enough exposure / inclination on top of their other workload to get round them. Our property manager manages something like 200 other buildings.

Actually the management of these communal blocks is a fucking disgrace. I routinely pick up work that we have been invoices for that hasn't actually been done. For visible stuff that's easy but for hidden things (like new parts in our lift) it's really difficult. The contractors who take on this work rely on the fact that for the most part no one checks in a heavily tenanted city centre block.

I can't wait to move to a house as I currently feel like I am responsible for the maintenance of a mansion but only get the benefit of living in a tiny part of it. And about once every 3 weeks one of my neighbours fucks something up - e.g their contractor drags their new washing machine over our hall floor scratching it, tenants move out and dump what looks like half of ikea in our bin room despite the signage telling them that they are responsible for disposing of bulky items and that nothing should go in the bin room that doesn't fit in one of the bins.

Then we have to contact them, organise the repair/ rubbish collection and deal with the outrage and angst that we actually expect them to pay for the damage their contractor caused or pay to get rid of their shite.

Which when you've spent weeks sitting with a spare sofa in your flat as the council bulky item collections service was suspended due to covid and you didn't want to dump it in the bin store is pretty fucking galling.

When I bought my flat the previous buyers had pulled out due to unspecified "legal issues". I made it very clear to the agents that I was relying on a mortgage with a low deposit and so would be unable to proceed if it turned out the issues were with the flat, and therefore that they'd be wasting their own time by not being up front about anything. They don't get their commission until the sale actually goes through so there's no benefit to them in lying about something that will undoubtedly come up before the sale is finalised and which will force you to pull out - I think you just need to be very clear that that's the situation.

I sold my flat last year which had wooden cladding under the windows similar to OPs. Three storeys in height. It didn't need an ESW1 certificate.

@Jillyfernilly I take my hat off to you. I truly hope you can get moved and away from that stress. Our managing agent here is exceptional but I know that is rare. Good luck to you!

@Jillyfernilly
We are also having long-standing problems with our managing agents who are also the free holders for the site. I totally sympathise!

@EducatingArti
You can select your managing agent in your circumstances by using the Right to Manage legislation. This needs a majority of leaseholders to vote. It is difficult but can be done and a group of determined people did it for a property we own.
There are a few Property Management Companies who can assist and I think there is a Facebook group who are trying g to take action on leaseholds.

The problem is that ours is a large scheme of 144 flats. Many of these are rented out (even though this is against the terms of the lease, the current managing agents have allowed it) and we don't know or have contact details for the actual leaseholders. Also many landlords aren't actually that bothered as long as they get their rent each month!

@BitOutOfPractice you misunderstood me. I'm talking about the OP not the people who got screwed over the safety regulations that were enforce when they purchased their flats.

As a minimum anyone who buys a leasehold property and/or a relatively new building researches the freeholder, management company and developer.

For example there were some houses and flats near where I use to live that where on TV for their poor building design. People had issues getting furniture into them. There are flats near me now some have terrible freeholders and managing agents.

I know a couple of people who do what Jillyfernilly does as a job but have relevant qualifications. They have deliberately refused to take certain roles as they are responsible for fire safety in buildings that may require an EWS1.

Lots of useful advice - thank you! I've found out the name of the managent co, I soubt that they will respond directly / quickly.
Would a solicitor routinely request the ESW1 or at least ask them if they have one in place as par of leasehold info?
And yes, the staircase is narrow so I'm woried about funiture - the ved is staying at least.
I know buying a flat is not ideal and it's not what I had planned. But my buyer has screwed everyome over so my seller has pulled out last summer - it took over a year to complete hte sale! Now I can' t afford not only a 3-bed terrace which I was buying but even a good two bed in reasobably good area, it's gone mad.
So it's either a flat or a noon-standard construction house hat aer realistic,, in good-ish locations.
This flat has two bathrooms and a long lease - so it has a few plus points! Most 2-3 bed houses don't have that.

Also, is ESW or EWS as it varies in posts!

@Charlottemh

I sold my flat last year which had wooden cladding under the windows similar to OPs. Three storeys in height. It didn't need an ESW1 certificate.

Charlotte So did you get/have the certificate and it says that all is good, or did you not need it at all? and who decides that it's not needed - solicitors based on the info management provided? At least that means they ve done hte survey. But what if the management didn't do a survey yet...

Its EWS1
I'm also a director of a leasehold company. Our managing agent organised a meeting in Nov 2020 to discuss the cladding situation and demands for an EWS1. They recommended reading the article linked below, which is a good starting point. It may not be fully up to date as a few things have changed.
www.camden.gov.uk/documents/20142/0/EWS1+Form+Statement.pdf/73efc960-cd6b-8416-11ca-f28a85b00423?t=1594038980624

Thanks, Raining. So would you say all management companies now have EWS or in the process of getting the survey/documents? Are they obligedto do it by law? Or is it only an issue when someone tries to sell in a block (issue for small blocks where flats don't go on sale often)?

Is it free for a leaseholder to get the cert if it's already obtained by their management co?

Yes it's EWS1 - the EWS means external wall system, external system wall wouldn't make any sense.

DH was on our (self managed, utter shitshow, run if they don't have an external managing agent dealing with the actual work) board of directors when the issue came up. It took over a year to get the survey booked and three months after that to get the certificate. As I understand it, it's not a legal requirement on our block (under 18m) but fire safety certificates are (it's quite complicated running a block of flats, hence best left to the professionals rather than penny pinching amateurs) but we had to get one because mortgage companies wouldn't touch any of the flats without one, thus making them unsellable.

To underline the batshittery of the mortgage companies on this - it is not a legal requirement on our 4 floor block but our mortgage company insisted on one. The stupid thing was we were just changing product - we weren't increasing the amount of the loan or the period of the loan, just changing onto a slightly better deal for us - so their risk on our flat remained entirely unchanged. They flatly refused to remortgage without the EWS1. No amount of pointing out the obvious helped this.

The management company should give the certificate to a leaseholder without charge but some charge a fee for almost anything.

Hi, I can't add much to broccoli advice. We are lucky in that this particular MA company is proactive, one of their directors has been involved with one of the leasehold reform lobby groups. I wouldn't say everyone was on top of the EWS1 situation, and the waiting list for a survey is massive

Also, fire brigades are being very proactive and asking for quite a lot of works.