Edwardian maisonette- love it but scared we might be making a mistake- can someone talk some sense into me please?

[ninkyno]

Really need some level-headed advice from you sensible lot.

You may have seen my previous thread about an Edwardian maisonette we went to view and how madly I fell in love with it- high ceilings, period features intact, perfect area, close to the station (I don't drive so this is a must). However, there was lots to compromise on: it was the top floor flat and the garden was to the side of the property (we have two DC under 6) and it needed updating to modern standards (electrics, etc.). Also, there are some complications with the lease, in that, the gentleman who owned it previously (the freeholder) never really had any leases drawn up for the property and so this is something that needs sorting asap. We made an offer on the flat and it was accepted for £700K (not central London). I was really excited about everything until this morning and then watched the news and become increasingly aware that inflation/recession could really bite us in the bum if we're not careful (have clearly been in denial until now). We definitely need to move (we're in a 2 bed flat which we've quickly outgrown) and my husband- the higher earner- will be changing jobs in a few months time which means our mortgage affordability will be impacted. What bothers me is that we can't afford to stay where we are (houses are coming on at £735K onwards and selling within days, often through discreet marketing) so need to move out but I need to stay in the same area due to the Children’s schools but if we were to not place importance on location then we could get a much bigger place with everything we needed- full house, direct access into the garden, etc.

As it stands, the maisonette is 2000sq ft so twice the amount of space we'd get for an actual house but a lot cheaper. There is nothing else on the market within budget currently.

Am I being U to want to go for the maisonette or should we back out and wait for something else to come up? My husband doesn't want to go into rental for a number of reasons but mostly because he thinks we'll be priced out of all local areas and won't be able to get back onto the property ladder if we wait. We both agree that we need to move from where we are. I'm just getting scared that we're spending close to a million pounds and not even getting the whole house. What would you do?

@raspberrymuffin

I bought a flat instead of a house because it meant we could live in a nicer area and haven't regretted it once, if that helps. Some of our neighbours have kids and do just fine and if we ever manage one I don't think we'd be in any rush to move. Admittedly we were looking at a tiny fraction of your budget but I think the principle is the same in that if you moved to a different area you could afford a (very nice!) house. Just make sure you get a decent local solicitor rather than a national call centre type conveyancer, to make sure the lease issue is sorted.

Thank you- this is really reassuring. The vendors solicitors are in the city (he was quite a businessman it seems) and have dealt with his other properties too. They're specialists in commercial and domestic leases so we've been told and apparently don't anticipate a problem with creating a lease.

Also read/commented on your previous thread - you haven’t yet mentioned budget, cost of property and what’s left over for renovation. That, at the end of the day, is the crux of the matter. That flat will swallow £100k+ before you know it - do you have that to spend?

Have they given you an estimate for the cost of the lease work?

Equally have you got a list of works so you can get quotes for the building work?

Sorry, just reread - saw you offered £700k - what do you have left over?

That is a bloody huge flat for London. How desperate is the updating? Is it safe/liveable for now while you get the work done over time?

We live in a flat with no direct access to our courtyard (it's two floors down and I can see the whole thing from our windows). DD is a sensible 5yo and she has gone down to throw/kick a football for 5 minutes in her own a few times. I think once they're 6+ letting them down in the garden by themselves would be a non-issue (as long as it's secure/people can't get in from the street etc).

The flat looked lovely and provided you can get the lease issue sorted I'd go for it tbh.

@MyHusbandTheIdiot

Also read/commented on your previous thread - you haven’t yet mentioned budget, cost of property and what’s left over for renovation. That, at the end of the day, is the crux of the matter. That flat will swallow £100k+ before you know it - do you have that to spend?

I've just done a 2000 sq ft flat in W London and it came in at 130k for the refurb (but that included moving walls).

Not suggesting you'd do that level of work but you need to have a clear idea of costs before you proceed with the purchase otherwise you're just writing a blank cheque. (I took my builder round on the second viewing and he firmed up my estimate).

And - I don't live there, which makes renovation much easier.

I've lived abroad and brought up young children in large flats. They loved it. Gardens are great to have but really not one of life's absolute essentials. The weather, for starters, makes them unusable for half the year. Whereas your living space is your living space 365 days a year. We used to set off to the park with a picnic blanket and a Frisbee. Zero drama. You will go to your much closer garden, where you can store picnic blankets and Frisbees. Even less drama.

I saw your earlier thread with doom mongers warning about cost of replacing windows etc. Yes - big windows are cold. You can though pick up heavy insulated curtains v cheap second hand. You can wear extra layers... As another poster asked, what budget have you left over for rewiring etc?

Basically, and I know this sounds trite but home buyers seem to fall into two camps. Romantics and hard heads. I couldn't move into a place that didn't speak to me somehow - even if it made less practical sense than a more 'sensible' option a mile down the road. I'd have fallen for the amazing money pit too and wouldn't have been able to resist. The thought that the former owner, an astute businessman and a man of means, lived there even when he had his choice of properties... He evidently loved the view, and the 'bones' of the place. Is that what you felt too?

While I understand the issue about the lease, it wouldn't worry me. In order for the sale to go ahead, the vendors solicitors are going to have to sort all that part out. It might delay the sale but I don't see how you would have any additional costs.

Much more significant for me would be the high ceilings. Heat rises, there is nothing you can do about that. Getting the area you are actually occupying warm enough for comfort when there is a large open space above you to heat can actually become really quite expensive. With fuel bills set to rise significantly, this is something to factor in.

Maybe set aside a budget for thermals to be worn indoors. Not my cup of tea, but I realise that the space might be attractive for you s as byway.

The thought that the former owner, an astute businessman and a man of means, lived there even when he had his choice of properties... He evidently loved the view, and the 'bones' of the place. Is that what you felt too?

Or an astute businessman bought the freehold to make money from it.

A couple of other things OP - what's the state of the roof and exterior & does it have any service charge. Custom built blocks tend to; subdivided houses often don't or very little, which is a plus until work is needed on the fabric then you will have to fund it yourselves with no sink fund to draw on.

@TatianaBis

The thought that the former owner, an astute businessman and a man of means, lived there even when he had his choice of properties... He evidently loved the view, and the 'bones' of the place. Is that what you felt too?

Or an astute businessman bought the freehold to make money from it.

A couple of other things OP - what's the state of the roof and exterior & does it have any service charge. Custom built blocks tend to; subdivided houses often don't or very little, which is a plus until work is needed on the fabric then you will have to fund it yourselves with no sink fund to draw on.

Very good point about whether there is a service charge and/or a sinking fund. Also - does the block have lifts? If they need replacing the cost per Apartment can run into the tens of thousands.

The vendors solicitors are in the city (he was quite a businessman it seems) and have dealt with his other properties too. They're specialists in commercial and domestic leases so we've been told and apparently don't anticipate a problem with creating a lease.

This is good but the vendor's solicitors only work for the vendor! Make sure your own are good too.

If the lease has not previously been registered with the LR it could take months to sort out.

I don’t think the garden is that big an issue. There’s a real obsession in this country with gardens, hence tiny houses with gardens being seen as ‘proper’ family homes. But an enormous flat with lots of room for everyone strikes me as more useful really. And as your kids get older they’ll be able to use the garden without you going with them.

You need to sort the lease, but it will be putting others off, so if you can get it all settled it’s likely you’ll be getting a bargain. Just make sure you have good legal advice.

Extending an existing lease and writing one up from scratch is not the same thing at all.
I hadn’t clocked this. Even renewing one took 9 months, so the op would definitely need to be prepared for a holdup.

I would still go for it, you love it and it sounds and looked amazing on the photos you posted.
It’s an amazing place and I don’t think you will regret living there.
But as @friskybivalves mentioned, I’m more romantically inclined, if I love a property and can afford it, that’s it.

I think it all comes back to affordability as in can you afford the tens of thousands to do all the necessary work which always costs far far more than imagined.

Just came across this as in a similar situation (although not making offers yet, just considering options). How did this end, OP?

Many people have families living in flats. The location is perfect for your needs, the lease is being drawn up and the only issue is how much it will cost to renovate. Personally I'd still go for it.

OP can't find previous thread/link

What I find bad about MN is that you obviously don't know what the posters background is and therefore whether their opinion is relevant or not to your situation.
There are many parts of the UK where housing is very affordable and it is perfectly normal for a family with a modest income to own a 3+ bedroom house with garden etc, hence you suggestion to purchase a flat might seem very weird to their eyes. But London and surroundings (and the SE in general) is just a different world where people, even young professionals with good jobs, are unable to afford to buy a property without family help. There are lots of families living in flats, amenities and train connections at your doorstep are vital and there is overall more diversity, with plenty of European and Asian families used to flat living.
The average British person will always say "your kids need a house with a garden" because that is all they have always known but it doesn't have to be the only way of doing things.
This flat sounds dreamy, I hope you managed to sort the issues in the end.

If the flat is 700k but needs work then surely it would be better to get s house like you mentioned for 735k

Top floor and no direct access to the garden - no way with little ones. Absolutely no way. You are making a rod for your backs.

@Mischance millions of people in most countries around the world live in flats, in fact it is the most common thing to do in Europe for example. I never had a garden and grew up just fine. Besides the weather in the UK is always bad so I don't understand this obsession.

Millions of people live in poverty - dose not mean it is ideal.

Clearly it is more than possible to live in a top floor flat with children and millions of people do this - but it is not ideal.

@Mischance how are you comparing living in poverty with not having a garden? This has nothing to do with income, it's just a different way of living. Where about in the UK are you based? It might be perfectly normal for you to live in a house with garden and perhaps you've never known anything else but I can reassure you it is the norm in most parts of the worlds and certainly in London too, even for the very wealthy. This is exactly what I was talking about in my pp above. People have different opinions based on the context they have always lived in.