Are period properties money pits? I think I've fallen in love with one.

[ninkyno]

Went to see an Edwardian flat today and I felt the tingles- the high ceilings, elaborate plaster work, winding staircase, wide proportions, hidden rooms, elaborate fireplaces, etc. It didn't help that the gentleman who previously lived there, appeared to have lived the most amazing life- his grand piano was still in situ as well as period furniture and furnishings. I really didn't want the viewing to end BUT... it needs a LOT of work doing to it as it hasn't had anything done to it for the last 50 years. I'm talking new windows, new floors, electrics, etc.

My husband thinks I'm mad and we should keep looking but we're getting twice the amount of square footage in this place than a house for the same price. Would this flat be worth the risk? Is the top floor flat with share of freehold so we'd be responsible for any roof repairs, etc. Are there any other pitfalls that come along with owning beautiful, old buildings?

The garden isn't attached to the flat though- would that be a problem with two little ones? We've got a communal garden where we are atm and I hate schleping downstairs with kids toys, snacks, etc. but I suppose the benefit of having a private garden is that I can leave the children's things there and not worry about hosing them down before bringing back upstairs (scooters, bikes, etc.).

It looks lovely by the way, what's the view out of the main window?

It's green belt land we've been told. Apparently the owners have applied for planning permission many times but it's been refused every time.

If it gives you the tingles, that's all that matters. Go for it!

Just go for it. It has so much potential and looks completely liveable as it is while you save to do work gradually. Our house was a project but work can be spaced out so it’s affordable. To have beautiful and inspiring surroundings is a joyful thing - especially when working from home. Do you have a local park for the kids? We have a small garden but it’s rarely used as the kids prefer the park anyway. We have no parking which can be irritating & some people find unfathomable but I’ll take my pretty fireplaces over those practical things any day. Put an offer in!

I renovated an Edwardian house that had barely been touched in 30 years. Spent £50k on modernising (only the kitchen didn't need to be replaced, thank goodness!), and sold for £100k more than purchase price 4 years earlier.

Those rooms are huge, and the windows are amazing, it looks fantastic! As long as you can comfortably afford it, together with the refurbishment costs, I'd go for it.

Thank you all- feeling justified in wanting to take a chance on this flat! Need to work on convincing my husband of the same now...

Since so many of you have carried out renovations on period properties, how much below asking should we offer, if at all? There are houses that are similarly priced as this flat but they're smaller in square footage BUT the bedrooms in this property have an awkward layout and all of them have eaves storage which means it's not really practical re: furniture. Could I use that and the fact it requires so much work to haggle a little?

I had an Edwardian flat 8 years ago, quoted over £25k for upgrading the windows l, dread to think what it would cost now

You might need planning permission to change the windows- that will add extra time and cost to factor in.

The windows alone would frighten me away, it’s a flat so you have no Permitted Development rights so unless you’re replacing like for like you’ll need planning permission to change those. They look freezing!
Have you got a good £100k in your budget to do it up? Have you ever lived in a period property? It will be colder and much harder to insulate.
Stairs and separate gardens with toddlers and shopping is a bit off putting too but plenty of people manage and it depends what your used to.

@NeilBuchananisBanksy yes we had to seek planning permission and heritage permission if we were to change them. 6 large windows was over £25,000 hence why we didn't do them and sold to a developer instead. 8 years on and the cost of materials now I wouldn't be surprised if the cost was double this. I'd already spend over £60k upgrading electrics, plumbing, insulation, flooring, re-plasteting and changing the bathroom and it still needed so much doing to it so walked away whilst we could still make a profit.

Buy the place you love. The flat looks amazing-check the costs and if the overall cost is within budget, you’ll end up with a lovely spacious home. We ended up buying a house we loved even though there were a few things wrong and every day we say how lucky we are to live here.
That view is inspiring.

Yes they are a money pit but worth it if you have the budget for repairs.
We lived in a victorian villa flat and a victorian terraced house. Both had damp, roof issues, dodgy wiring etc. We didn't have the budget to do a full re-wire, new roof, new damp proofing etc. We could only do patch-up jobs.
We now live in an 80s house and, whilst I miss period features, it's SO DRY! I can paint the walls in expensive chalky paint and know for sure that it won't get ruined by damp.

We’ve never had one, but a cousin of dh who had a very picturesque old country cottage, always said, ‘Don’t buy one! Old houses eat money!’

Tempting when dds were young, though - they not only had ‘room for a pony’ as per Hyacinth Bucket - but did actually have one, which would wander into the kitchen and help itself to apples from the fruit bowl.😂

The flat looks lovely. One other thing though with kids, check out the rooms below your main living spaces and ideally what the neighbours are like. Friends of mine have had a terrible time with people living below them constantly complaining about noise- from what I can tell normal kids playing and walking about. Although the complaining aren’t able to formally do anything it has really made life miserable for my friends- constantly worried about getting texts from neighbours, and they are now moving out. Also don’t even think about exposed floorboards/ other hard floors on the floors where people are below. And the garden would be a deal breaker for me (kids not being able to run in and out as they please) but I know others manage pretty well.

My parents' home had a pink bathroom suite like this in the 1960s! Think they have become fashionable again?

It looks lovely, I love how bright the living room is. But put it this way, I am so sick of finding 10 more problems every time I try to fix something on my late Victorian house that it has put me off buying a period property again!

I’m going to be “devil’s advocate” here. It won’t just be a money pit though, renovating it will be a massive call on your energy, time and mental space. You’d be living in a space that regularly becomes a construction site with small children I wouldn’t go into that if one of you isn’t fully committed to it. The money you spend on the property won’t be going into savings for your family’s security/future and having had to renovate two 1930s and one 1940s house without having to worry too much about preserving the period authenticity etc it is totally draining as no job is simple. You think you’ll be sorting out one room, you uncover something that means it becomes an almighty job over the entire floor or house. You haven’t budgeted for the bigger job so you have to live with it being wrong until you can afford it or bodge it and be dissatisfied or concerned it won’t last and create more disaster. Do you really want the extra stress and work with two small children? I know I am giving a more pessimistic view but having had to do something that is less difficult than this and knowing how much work and time and energy it took, I think you are looking at it in an idealistic way rather than considering the impact this will have on you whilst you’re doing the work.

The flip side op, is that once you’ve done it your property is likely to be worth much more than you invested and be much more beautiful than anything you can afford to buy. Plus once it’s done, it becomes like maintaining a new build pretty much. It’s not a money pit for ever.

As said, we took nearly a decade to do ours. The truth of the matter is we spent about 120 grand doing it up, and we added a lot more value than 120k, and we simply cpuld never have afforded to buy it in its current finished state. Plus it’s done exactly to our tastes.

You need to be realistic about the costs.

First split into what has to be done for safety (rewire, lead pipes) or structural integrity.

Second what it more convenient to do as 1 renovation early on. Windows and central heating.

Third does ant of this lead to other making good costs - new carpets after central heating

Firstly, dates but works. The carpet and pink bathroom is not to my taste but is functional.

Last point regarding windows, you could spent a fortune or much less. Check if there are any restrictions, don't be tempted by upvc even if allowed and consider repairing rather than replacing. Well fitting single glazing with decent curtains are not as bad as they are made out.

@ninkyno

Thank you all- feeling justified in wanting to take a chance on this flat! Need to work on convincing my husband of the same now...

Since so many of you have carried out renovations on period properties, how much below asking should we offer, if at all? There are houses that are similarly priced as this flat but they're smaller in square footage BUT the bedrooms in this property have an awkward layout and all of them have eaves storage which means it's not really practical re: furniture. Could I use that and the fact it requires so much work to haggle a little?

You can, but generally it’s valued in its current condition, not as a done up finished article, so the price should take this into account. That doesn’t mean you can’t make an offer, they will know their min and will either say yes or no.

We offered on a flat like this years ago. It was the top half of a very grand house, and an old lady had lived there. We had to be realistic as becayse as much as I loved it, it was going to take a lot of money immediately, we came in below asking and the family rejected. Going to asking was just going to be silly for us, so we wAlked away. None of us can predict how much the sellers will let it go for, but normally properties are valued for their condition. Not what they would be worth when completely renovated.

@MalbecandToast

I had an Edwardian flat 8 years ago, quoted over £25k for upgrading the windows l, dread to think what it would cost now

Ditto. Edwardian flat in Edinburgh, within a conservation area. Single glazed sash windows, some 10 feet tall.

Cost to replace: at least five grand per window and we have 11 in total.

I'm just turning the heating up, it's cheaper.

Doing any work at all at the moment is hard - labour andmaterials are scarce - think about that before you buy. We've just bought a Victorian terrace and it's bloody freezing.

please note 90% of old sash windows can be re-furbished a new piece of wood can be spliced in etc, there are companies that re furnbish windows so have no skin in trying to tell you wholesale replacement is necessary; we live in 1887 house there are 18 original windows one needs replacing 2 need more work, 3 need new sills the rest need cords checking and repainting and a bit of re pointing often the single glazing has thicker glass than modern single glazing our panes are 5-7mm glass single not 3mm with decent thick lined curtains I find that new is not better especially ifyou can only replace with single glazing
ok you don't like the living room carpet but it functions the pink bathroom suite is probably better quality that what is currently available and again it works so don't think it has to cost 100K immediately it almost certainly can be done on much less

ninkyno I LOVE those panelled walls but the carpet is a bit (meh) ! Though that look maybe back in fashion now , I don't keep up with fashion I just know what I like.

If you invest in blinds and lined curtains (you can get those 2nd hand too) while saving for new proper wooden replacement windows it should stay warm enough . I'd try an offer but you need dh on side too for a contented life.

What’s it on for? I see from your previous post that your budget is £740k max. If it’s on for anything more than £650k walk away. A 2000sqft property needing ‘everything doing’ will eat £100k before you know it, and more if you let it. Hear speaks the bitter voice of (multiple) experience - particularly in the current climate - our current reno has gone over budget by 100%!