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Original poster

Extractor fan going out external wall to neighbours garden

55 replies

22Newnames · 01/03/2022 22:34

We have a kitchen on our external wall with an extractor going out there. The other side of the wall is in a neighbour’s garden.

Kitchen has been there with extractor in that position for 15 years (years before current neighbour moved in).

We are getting a new kitchen and asked neighbour a while ago if we could have access as the extractor may need to move about 30cm. He said fine, all good.

Saw him today and suddenly he asked what the extractor was for and he is concerned about cooking smells. He has apparently never noticed the external flaps open so assumed our current one didn’t work (it did although probably wasn’t great). I told him it did work and told him i didn’t expect it to be much different to now. The reality is though that tech has moved on and I assume the new extractor will be better than the old one.

So the question is, can he actually object to potential cooking smells? There is a chance the builder may not need to move the extraction point but it is still possible he may get smells if it is more effective.

My gut tells me he can’t legitimately complain about it as it has been there for years even though it’s being replaced. But I also don’t want to fall out with him, although have no other option of where to extract in reality.

It’s a 70s housing estate if that makes any difference, we are not in any special or remote area.

Any thoughts would be welcome. Thank you!

OP posts:

Original poster

22Newnames · 02/03/2022 09:22

@tanstaafl

You can get a plume kit which is basically a short chimney to take the extracted air up rather than out. Maybe an acceptable compromise?

Thank you, will look into that.

OP posts:

Original poster

22Newnames · 02/03/2022 09:23

@House2022

If you have not ordered the kitchen I would recommend have another look to see if the design can be changed to accommodate the move. There is nothing to stop a new neighbour moving in and extend their house right up to the border like yours, and block your vent.

Kitchen is already ordered and paid for. We spoke to neighbour before ordering the kitchen and he had no issue at that time. It is only now that it is being installed that he has mentioned it.

OP posts:

onepieceoflollipop · 02/03/2022 09:23

@22Newnames
You’re welcome.

Also the next poster makes a good point about if a future owner extends - potentially against your vent.

(And fwiw I understood your point about the age about the neighbour. In the context you wrote it it wasn’t ageist. It was somewhat unfortunate that it was slightly re-worded and then misunderstood later in the thread.)

It sounds like a further chat with neighbour might be all that is needed.

Original poster

22Newnames · 02/03/2022 09:26

Thanks onepieceoflollipop

OP posts:

Honeyroar · 02/03/2022 09:27

Perhaps discuss it with him - say you’ve looked at moving it to the other wall, but think it will cause more problems for him if you do. See what he thinks? Point out that you’ve looked into it, it is legal to vent like this, it needs to go somewhere, but you’re trying to be nice.

BonnyandPoppy · 02/03/2022 09:32

@22Newnames The old vent I think was a 400mm and the new one a 600mm. The kitchen designer said we needed the bigger vent for the guarantee on the extractor hood to be valid or something like that. They have definitely put a bigger one in and redrilled the hole.

Thewindwhispers · 02/03/2022 09:34

We had same layout as you OP and we vent intonour own back garden, not the neighbours.

Dunno what the legalities are but I would never choose to vent into a neighbour’s garden! Is easy enough to vent into your own builder just has to run a pipe along.

TwoLeftSocksWithHoles · 02/03/2022 09:47

I wouldn't have a recirculating fan, they don't seem much good to me.

Could you run rigid ducting to your back wall above the kitchen units (assuming there are some) with an in-line fan and exit there?

I wouldn't go up through a flat roof (if you have one) I remember a builder saying 'never puncture a flat roof unless you really have to, as one day it will leak.'

Sandrine1982 · 02/03/2022 09:49

What is wrong with recirculating hoods? We have one and it's fabulous. I just can't see why you can't return your current hood system and order a simpler system instead.

dewl · 02/03/2022 09:55

I agree that it's not very neighbourly of you. I would object if I were your neighbour.
The fan should be directed into your own garden and you should design your kitchen around this.

Zilla1 · 02/03/2022 09:56

HNRTT but some external fans can still have a charcoal filter to reduce the nuisance. That plus a silent new fan might mean no difference is noted even if the new one works more effectively.

TheTeenageYears · 02/03/2022 09:59

If you were applying for planning permission now for the kitchen extension would permission be granted with the new extractor and if no planning required would there be any building regs issues? I think that gives you a starting point to if it's reasonable or not and may also be the legal basis for your right of access.

Karatema · 02/03/2022 10:13

I haven't read all the comments but what will happen if your neighbour decides to extend like your house has been?

candycane222 · 02/03/2022 10:19

Agree that you might well need to anticipate moving the vent if someone someday next door decides they want to mirror your extension - though hopefully that will be a while away, if ever.

RE reirculating hoods - they remove the smoke and smells if they are good (plenty aren't) but don't remove moisture (so you would need to be confident the rest of the house was well-ventilated) and they don't remove Nitrous Oxide that you get from gas cooking. I never realised nitrous oxide was an issue until we swapped our gas hob for induction and my constant irritated cough went away! (our kitchen extract isn't over our cooker - which is against a party wall so can't install one without a load of faff, but we ought to try to install one somehow, this thread has reminded me of that!)

Be sure that the fan is a good one that is quiet. A more powerful one will probably be quieter in use, as its bigger, so everything can move more slowly to shift the same amount of air. Don't let them install the cheapest bit of noisy crap!

Charlieiscool · 02/03/2022 10:30

You need to find a way of getting the smells away from your neighbour, it’s so inconsiderate to just selfishly do what suits you. He could always build a wall to cover the vents though - who could blame him? In the future new neighbours might extend along the party wall so you need a better way of dealing with your waste than spewing it all next door.

Original poster

22Newnames · 02/03/2022 10:31

[quote BonnyandPoppy]@22Newnames The old vent I think was a 400mm and the new one a 600mm. The kitchen designer said we needed the bigger vent for the guarantee on the extractor hood to be valid or something like that. They have definitely put a bigger one in and redrilled the hole.[/quote]
Thanks Bonny - I have just checked and the new vent is 150mm which is the same as the existing one.
The new extractor is a very quiet one so noise should not be an issue. I will look into a charcoal filter.
With regard to rigid venting on top of kitchen units, that would be difficult as while there are some they do not go all the way to the end wall due to the window being on the corner (which would probably make ducting out there difficult too).

I can genuinely see where people are coming from with the it's not very neighbourly comments if we were starting afresh and deciding to vent into the neighbour's garden. I would not choose to start afresh and do that. What makes it different in my eyes is that it has been that way for 15 years and has never caused anyone an issue at all. In fact the neighbour thought the old fan did not work (when it worked fine).

OP posts:

FurierTransform · 02/03/2022 10:32

Honestly OP, from your diagram, I'd say that it is very un neighbourly to vent directly into their garden from your extension like that, regardless of what was done in the past.

I'd look to route the vent either straight out the roof, or along to your back wall (this really isn't s big deal- duct can run above kitchen cupboards, or in them at the back of top shelf if they are ceiling height)

dewl · 02/03/2022 10:34

But you yourself said that the new fan will probably be more efficient and therefore be more smelly for him!
I think you are really in the wrong here, sorry.

Fuckitsstillraining · 02/03/2022 10:42

You are confident that you'll be there longer than your neighbour so what do you intend doing if the new occupants extend the house in a similar manner to yours?

Original poster

22Newnames · 02/03/2022 10:43

Thank you for the variety of opinions, I can see where most are coming from.

I am sure we will discuss with neighbour and find a solution everyone is happy with.

OP posts:

InkySquid · 02/03/2022 10:46

I know you are saying that venting on your back wall will be closer to his windows but I think the positioning now is more likely to be a nuisance as you're venting into an area that is almost a courtyard with walls on three sides. I imagine smells could hang in the air more than if you were venting out the back wall.

Collaborate · 02/03/2022 10:47

I'm approaching this from a legal perspective.

You say it has vented from that point for the last 15 years.

When it was installed either the owner at the tie (was it you?) asked the then neighbour for permission, or didn't ask.

If they didn't ask, after 20 years your property may have acquired a right to vent out of that hole - that is a right gained by prescription. See this Land Registry guide: www.gov.uk/government/publications/easements-claimed-by-prescription/practice-guide-52-easements-claimed-by-prescription.

If permission from the neighbour was granted then no easement by prescription could arise even after 20 years.

Any easement would be to vent from that same spot. You don't get to move it, or enter on next door's land to move it as it is not essential maintenance.

So you are really at next door's mercy.

DetailMouse · 02/03/2022 10:59

I've had two variations of this issue. The first was where the extractor should have vented into neighbour's garden. Builder, at the last minute, sent me to check with them that it was OK, but they weren't in. Never mind he said, we can use some other sort of filter (charcoal?) which doesn't need to be vented outdoors. In hindsight it was a godsend they weren't in, that's not a reasonable request to be putting neighbour's on the spot with. I wouldn't want it venting into my garden, why would anyone, especially when There's a sokutionbthat makes it unnecessary?

2nd time the hob is on an internal wall, so the same solution has been used. In neither house have I ever wised I had an externally vented extractor.

Original poster

22Newnames · 02/03/2022 11:16

@Collaborate

I'm approaching this from a legal perspective.

You say it has vented from that point for the last 15 years.

When it was installed either the owner at the tie (was it you?) asked the then neighbour for permission, or didn't ask.

If permission from the neighbour was granted then no easement by prescription could arise even after 20 years.

Any easement would be to vent from that same spot. You don't get to move it, or enter on next door's land to move it as it is not essential maintenance.

So you are really at next door's mercy.

Thank you @Collaborate

When the vent was put in 15 years ago, permission was sought from the neighbour who agreed with no reservations. There is nothing in writing, this was a verbal agreement. We no longer have contact details for the person who was the owner at that time so would struggle to prove it. There has been another owner since who didn't have any issues and the current owner who has been there 3/4 years who to date has had no issue with it.

I am confused though, you say if permission was granted then no easement by prescription could arise. Does this mean we are in a worse position because permission was sought? Or is it just that as permission was granted there is no need for an easement?

Thanks for your help.

OP posts:

Collaborate · 02/03/2022 11:25

Does this mean we are in a worse position because permission was sought?

Yes - an easement by prescription requires that neighbouring land be used without permission.

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