opening up kitchen diner in this layout? ££?

[dancingvic]

Hi, we have finally found a house that looks promising so considering what to offer. Anyone any idea how much it would cost to knock through the kitchen diner (at back of the house) and put a wall up to separate the living area at the front of the house? The wall seemed hollow but not 100% sure it isn't load bearing. A couple of others on the estate have opened it up it looks like. Thanks , first time buyers so new to all of this! In Surrey, close to London

I'd be very surprised it if wasn't load bearing (especially as it aligns with the wall above it) but I'm not an expert. If there is a hob, oven, sink, or radiator on the right kitchen wall, there will be a cost to relocate the gas or water as well. You'll need to lay new flooring across the new kitchen and diner and replaster the walls.

So, you'll likely need a structural engineer, plumber, electrician (if there are any outlets on either side of that wall), plasterer, someone to do the flooring, and a general tradesman. Finding and coordinating all of those trades is tricky, so I'd recommend getting a building company.

It'll be a very disruptive project and difficult to live in the house as it's happening. You'll also have the cost of a new kitchen.

In Surrey, I'd say at least 10k, as well as the cost of a new kitchen, depending on the level of finish you want. Prices have skyrocketed lately though.

Go and speak to the others on the estate, you’ll find someone happy to talk to you. Also, if you have a builder/engineer friend, you could ask them to come and have a look to tell you if it’s load bearing.

I would probably budget 20-25k to knock the wall down, build the wall to separate the living room, new flooring, kitchen, plastering, electrics etc in the new kitchen. Obvs that depends on how much you want to spend on a kitchen! We've done something sort of similar (a wall knocked down, a wall built and a new kitchen/plastering/electrics etc) and it's come in at about 15k (we are in the NW).

We’ve knocked through on a load bearing wall we have a boxed in steel and the room is now fantastic. I can’t tell you costs as this was years back before everything went silly. It wasn’t a huge deal. It had to get signed off and a structural engineer came to have a quick look and say what the steel had to be.

I lived in a house with exactly this layout. The wall in my case was load bearing.
The problem I had is that it is a relatively small, and very fiddly job. As someone noted above, there need to be many trades involved. At the moment builders have full order books and they don't want such a small and time consuming job.

If you can get someone to do the work, then 5-10k for taking down the wall and making good.

We didn't bother in the end. It was too much expense and mess.

How old is the house? We took out the equivalent wall in our 1960s house, and it wasn't load bearing. When we took the floorboards up in the hallway above, we discovered there was an RSJ between the downstairs ceiling and upstairs floor.

We have just had this done. We are doing up an entire house though, so don't know the costs for just that knock through. Some things to think about though:

• We had a gas aga on the wall we removed, so getting this disconnected, and dismantled was (I think) £600, and will obviously cost for re-assembly again. If you have a gas oven, this will have fees attached to moving it too.

• We knocked down 2 walls, and 1 of the steels the structural engineer said we needed is massive! What is access like to that part of the house? We have a wide drive around the side to the back of the house, so access was easy. Our neighbours only had a 1m gap, so their steels needed to craned over the top of the house!!!

@dancingvic

Hi, we have finally found a house that looks promising so considering what to offer. Anyone any idea how much it would cost to knock through the kitchen diner (at back of the house) and put a wall up to separate the living area at the front of the house? The wall seemed hollow but not 100% sure it isn't load bearing. A couple of others on the estate have opened it up it looks like. Thanks , first time buyers so new to all of this! In Surrey, close to London

Knock through - £8k (labour, steel, engineer) New wall/door - £2k

Electrics/plumbing if required - £2k
Making good walls/floor - £Xk depending on finish

Structural work, moving plumbing and pipes, kitchen, plaster and finish would cost no less than £50k

We did similar type of work on our house last year. It involved removing a load bearing wall and putting a steel in, bricking up 1.5 windows, new boiler and pipe work, new electrics, blocking off an internal door, plastering, decorating, new kitchen and flooring. We didn't have much change of our budget of around £40k. This was in Greater London.

thanks so much for the replies. Been ill and offline so just seen. Really useful

Your money would be much better spent building an extension and creating a L-shape kitchen dining room and leaving the double reception as it is. The extra square footage will increase the value to absorb the building costs.

@TatianaBis

Your money would be much better spent building an extension and creating a L-shape kitchen dining room and leaving the double reception as it is. The extra square footage will increase the value to absorb the building costs.

Hugely disagree if the OP is anything like me and wants a separate grown-up sitting room instead of the long one currently on the floor plan – there’s a big market for those of us that like our rooms to have four walls!

@stuntbubbles

You disagree that adding sq footage adds value?

You'd still have 4 walls to your sitting room, as you can retain the french windows going into the extension, it would be double the size.

There's a big market for people who want spacious houses.

@TatianaBis Sq footage adds value but only if done well, but in any case I was disagreeing with the part where you said OP’s money would be better spent. Personal opinion but I hate long sitting rooms as per the floor plan and would want to do exactly what she’s planning, and cut off the sitting room to make a proper room, then knock through at the back. That, to me, is money better spent.

I agree with @stuntbubbles - we just looked at a house that was laid out as @TatianaBis describes with french doors going into the extension and then kitchen down the side in an L shape. We were already wondering how much it would cost to remove the kitchen/dining room wall (which contained a chimney breast) to make a proper open plan layout, which I think is what most people want these days. But then the vendor rejected our offer anyway so it's a moot point...

In fact, sq footage adds value even if it’s not that well done. And many people’s extensions are not as good as they could be.

Investing money in increasing the floorspace will see a return £/sq foot added, whereas simply reorganising the ground floor will cost a lot but not necessarily add value.

If the garden is big enough, you can turn the kitchen into a utility and create a large kitchen dining room in the extension.

The answer to a long sitting room is to break it into 2 spaces: one for watching TV and the other for entertaining, not to make it smaller.

There is a lot of wasted circulation / door space on your plan.

I'm not always an advocate of a walk-through living room but I would do that.

Block up the kitchen / hall doorway and make a utility area there - stacked washer / dryer, access to under-stairs storage, space to store vacuum cleaner, ironing board etc.

Then create a clever pocket door / archway arrangement across existing living dining area.

Replace existing external kitchen door with a window, and have just a patio door.

Loads of space then for kitchen cupboards / units in a u-shape - possibly a peninsula between kitchen / dining area but maybe avoid for more floorspace. Make it possible that the hallway arrangement could be reversed in future.

Or alternatively extend to rear, and put downstairs look in hallway, creating a utility off enlarged kitchen.

Just noticed you already have a downstairs loo .

@TatianaBis

In fact, sq footage adds value even if it’s not that well done. And many people’s extensions are not as good as they could be.

Investing money in increasing the floorspace will see a return £/sq foot added, whereas simply reorganising the ground floor will cost a lot but not necessarily add value.

If the garden is big enough, you can turn the kitchen into a utility and create a large kitchen dining room in the extension.

The answer to a long sitting room is to break it into 2 spaces: one for watching TV and the other for entertaining, not to make it smaller.

Eh, it’s one answer, not the answer. I’ve got a long sitting room and we’ve split it into two spaces – playroom and sitting room – and it’s still not as nice as two separate spaces. We’re selling up and looking for exactly that: a closed-off front room. If we were staying, we’d absolutely square it off.

Return on value is less important than whether you actually enjoy living there. Maybe OP will like your idea, maybe she wants the sitting room closed off, and if so, that’s the best use of money. It’s not all about resale value! You have to like the house you’re in, not its imaginary price tag in 10 years.

My original point was about return on investment.

You've shifted from disagreeing to saying that well return is not the most important thing. It might not be to you, but not everyone can afford renovations they won't see a return on. We don't know how long OP is intending to stay.

Why not move the kitchen into the garden end of the current living room making it a family kitchen/ dining room and turn the current kitchen into a snug/ adult sitting room. No knocking through, no steels just plumbing and electrics.

Was just coming to say what @viques said. You want one big room and a small separate one.
The big room could be great with kitchen, dining and you'd probably still get a small sofa at the bay end. Then have a nice little snug overlooking garden.