Please sign up if you think the England process need to be changed!!!

Yuppie20 · 21/02/2022 23:32

Yes the system here is atrocious.

Kite22 · 21/02/2022 23:34

I don't know enough about it to know what the possible issues with your proposals are BUT I have been saying for years what a ludicrous system we have in England, and how heartbreaking it is for some and so stressful for others.

We would like to move. We are now those people in a house too big for our needs or wants, but the idea of the stress of the whole process of selling and buying just puts me off completely. There HAS to be a better way.

gogohm · 21/02/2022 23:40

Why should the seller do a survey? That's down to the buyer, not everyone bothers, mine didn't

gogohm · 21/02/2022 23:41

It's taken mine 11

gogohm · 21/02/2022 23:41

11 weeks if all goes as planned next month

AmberLynn1536 · 21/02/2022 23:47

Our system is ludicrous compared to other countries, I’ve considered downsizing but the stress of our system makes me think I just can’t be bothered with it.

Kite22 · 21/02/2022 23:47

Didn't they try and introduce a sort of 'sellers pack' a few years ago.

Or was that just the energy rating bit ?

ukborn · 21/02/2022 23:55

Yep - make an offer legally binding. Not sure about the 5% down but a good will payment of a few thousand. Survey by buyer but all paperwork should be in order and the search system needs a big overhaul.
And I'd love a multiple listings service so any agent could show you any property and the agents split the commission (might have to up their.fees - it's 5% in the US but they do a lot for it).

lovesT · 22/02/2022 00:08

The Scottish system is much better. More certainty and the sellers do the home report which helps loads as you can see what condition the house is in before you even view it. England system is rubbish and you can pull out of a sale way too late.

Frecklespy · 22/02/2022 00:22

I totally agree that the system needs an overhaul, so below are my thoughts.

I've heard that the process in England and Wales is not that different to Scotland, except that the seller gets all his paperwork in order before the property is marketed. So rather than wait weeks and months for paperwork to arrive in dribs and drabs, it is all there for the solicitor to do their due diligence from the off.

We tried the HIPS, but sellers didn't like paying for surveys etc before marketing.

I think everything needs to be provided early on (with the exception of a survey, which still should fall to buyer's to commission). A large proportion of delays is waiting for the seller to provide ID documents, fill in the protocol forms, waiting for the buyer to pay monies on account for the searches, waiting for mortgage offers, waiting for management packs, waiting for certificates/warranties, waiting for the searches, waiting for redemption statements etc etc.

If a lot of the preliminary work could be done prior to marketing, then this would cut down a lot of the delays and mean that buyers/sellers could be contractually bound a lot quicker than at present. It would weed out flaky sellers who won't put their money where their mouth is.

It would also mean that giving timescales/discussing exchange and completion dates could be much more accurate and sooner, when the solicitor is in possession of the paperwork.

Uncomplicated · 22/02/2022 00:23

@Kite22

Didn't they try and introduce a sort of 'sellers pack' a few years ago.

Or was that just the energy rating bit ?

They did and were short lived

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_Information_Pack

DownUdderer · 22/02/2022 04:57

Yes. I'm in Australia and we put down a deposit, and agreed up front to an 8 week settlement. Between 6 and 12 weeks is normal.

I'm not 100% sure of each step, but I'm pretty sure the offer, once accepted is binding. You need your mortgage figured out and fund's available in the timeframe mutually agreed upon.

Roselilly36 · 22/02/2022 07:06

I agree 100% that the current system has a lot failings and causes stress to both vendors and purchasers. But I don’t think the modus operandi you are suggesting would work or necessarily save time.

1 Sellers, have enjoyed no sale no fee, they won’t want to pay for a survey, and start to incur legal costs. Searches are quite expensive the buyer may not trust the sellers survey or their funders, that will insist on valuation & survey, so no potential time saving & double the expense.

2 Searches are only valid for a period of time, 6 mths,so if it’s a protracted sale, they could expire and new searches would be recommended.

3 sometimes their are valid reasons why a buyer needs to pull out of purchase, not just because of an adverse survey, but a change in personal circumstances, illness, death in the family etc.

Original poster

J417 · 22/02/2022 17:12

@Roselilly36

I agree 100% that the current system has a lot failings and causes stress to both vendors and purchasers. But I don’t think the modus operandi you are suggesting would work or necessarily save time.

1 Sellers, have enjoyed no sale no fee, they won’t want to pay for a survey, and start to incur legal costs. Searches are quite expensive the buyer may not trust the sellers survey or their funders, that will insist on valuation & survey, so no potential time saving & double the expense.

2 Searches are only valid for a period of time, 6 mths,so if it’s a protracted sale, they could expire and new searches would be recommended.

3 sometimes their are valid reasons why a buyer needs to pull out of purchase, not just because of an adverse survey, but a change in personal circumstances, illness, death in the family etc.

I don't think the proposal is perfect BUT

time to change for the sellers so they can walk away while the buyer lose all the fees + the 10-20% increase of price this year

Is this fair they just relist when market is going up and buyer bear the costs? or vice versa when the market is going down?

Reason for a quick sale then, why stuck for 6 months?

If survey is done before hand then everyone knows about the condition.

Surveyor is a chartered society and they are held to a quality standard.

A change in personal circumstances, well this should be rare and they could walk away but just bear the consequences of any (fair) costs of walking away.

OP posts:

PrincessPaws · 22/02/2022 17:36

Sounds good, but how would you get round the fact that most deposits (apart from FTB) are dependant on a sale? I'd be surprised if a lot of people who are selling could put down 5% in cash (and have enough left for SDLT and legal fees)

PrincessPaws · 22/02/2022 17:37

Buying not selling!

Starseeking · 22/02/2022 17:38

Oh I wholeheartedly agree.

To add to your point 2. Sellers should have to put up a 1% commitment fee, repayable on completion, forfeited if they pull out.

I've just had a 7 month buying process ended by my elderly vendor, who claimed she wanted to move into a sheltered leasehold purchase, so she was simultaneously selling, and buying. Offers agreed and accepted in July 2021, vendor withdrew from all transactions in February 2022, No explanation, she just walked away with absolutely no comeback.

Sellers need to have more skin in the game, to reduce the number who speculatively putting their house on the market and walking away without a care in the world.

Starseeking · 22/02/2022 17:40

@PrincessPaws

Sounds good, but how would you get round the fact that most deposits (apart from FTB) are dependant on a sale? I'd be surprised if a lot of people who are selling could put down 5% in cash (and have enough left for SDLT and legal fees)

Presumably the agreement would be provisional until the chain was complete, then deposits would just pass up the chain in the same way they do now?

MrsMoastyToasty · 22/02/2022 17:46

I think that buying houses should be more like buying a car. The estate agent is the equivalent of the used car dealer. The estate agent buys and sells used and new houses. You see the house that you would like from their stock. You buy it from them either with cash, a loan or part exchange. End of the chain system.

scooterbear · 22/02/2022 17:48

We had our offer accepted and sold our house at the end of October. Only just getting to the stage of trying to get exchange date. Absolute zero reason for it to have taken this long-no chain, nothing complicated. It's ridiculous

senua · 22/02/2022 17:57

As a buyer, I wouldn't want surveys, searches, etc produced by the seller. I'd want my own, commissioned by me. Also, you are assuming a quick sale: what about houses which linger for a while so the documents are not current. If you were buying next week would you want a survey conducted before Storms Dudley, Eunice and Franklin? Would you want searches that just happened to be requested before the Council announced a huge new housing estate?

A house is usually one of the most expensive things you will ever buy. I don't want to be bounced into it, I want time to do my due diligence. I want the ability to walk away if I find that things are not as described.

Things are a mess at the moment because of Covid. They will settle down again.

Original poster

J417 · 22/02/2022 18:01

@PrincessPaws

Sounds good, but how would you get round the fact that most deposits (apart from FTB) are dependant on a sale? I'd be surprised if a lot of people who are selling could put down 5% in cash (and have enough left for SDLT and legal fees)

Good point

This would only be applicable if you are buying a cheaper or around the same price property. As because you might need a bigger deposit I guess

But then a bridging loan from the bank secured by the property then?

5% seems to be the average price change , if the amount is too low e.g. a few thousand pounds, then people will gazumping or gazundering

OP posts:

Original poster

J417 · 22/02/2022 18:08

@senua

As a buyer, I wouldn't want surveys, searches, etc produced by the seller. I'd want my own, commissioned by me. Also, you are assuming a quick sale: what about houses which linger for a while so the documents are not current. If you were buying next week would you want a survey conducted before Storms Dudley, Eunice and Franklin? Would you want searches that just happened

to be requested before the Council announced a huge new housing estate?

A house is usually one of the most expensive things you will ever buy. I don't want to be bounced into it, I want time to do my due diligence. I want the ability to walk away if I find that things are not as described.

Things are a mess at the moment because of Covid. They will settle down again.

Why ? Surveyor and solicitors are professional , they shouldn't cheat even if they are hired by the seller?

A large estate planning permission wouldn't appear overnight, should be safe even if your searches are a few months old .
And planning permission is pretty open now I think and could be re-searched again on internet by a click of thumb!!!

But I understand where you are coming from

We should have
A) a legally binding quick sale system
B) the current one for who wanted to sit there for ages and walk away when it suits them ( I am not saying it's you but there are very unethical one out there whether by greed or by mood since they know they have an upper hand)

OP posts:

BaronessEllarawrosaurus · 22/02/2022 18:09

When sale is agreed, a completion date should be agreed

A reservation fee of 5% of property price from buyer, held by solicitors

14 days after Agreed sale should be legally binding with exchange of contracts

How do those 2 points work with a chain?

Original poster

J417 · 22/02/2022 18:27

@BaronessEllarawrosaurus

2. When sale is agreed, a completion date should be agreed A reservation fee of 5% of property price from buyer, held by solicitors

14 days after Agreed sale should be legally binding with exchange of contracts

How do those 2 points work with a chain?

No chain

Again I am just suggestive we should have an alternative system

Only england & wales has chain I think; Other could correct me if I am wrong

Bargain a long completion date if you don't want to move into rental to give you time to find a property.
Most people I know in Aussie or US move into a rental apartment/short term lease in between if the dates did not work.
But unlike england where people afraid they would be stuck in rental for ever, usually they have a legally binding onward purchase agreed quickly.
As everyone has a legally binding and the guesswork removed, actually it is much more smoother.
e.g. in a seller market, people usually buy first and then sell, as they know they could sell quickly.
While here even in a seller market, the seller had to sell first and then find a property, which leads to so many chain falling apart and gazumping

Bank could provide a bridging loan, just like in most other civilized world if you have not completed on first and need to buy the second.

OP posts: