Landlord wants us to pay for new dishwasher

[Langkawinese]

Hi,

I live in a fairly high end apartment, that came with all appliances. TV, fridge, dishwasher etc etc.

The dishwasher is original to the flat being built in 2006 when it was a top of the range integrated model.

We moved in 4 months ago and have been using it fine, always scrape food off etc. Make sure to empty the filter. Have run a clean on 70c with special detergent once a month.

It’s now completely clogged, and the repairman sent out said it was our fault as food had built up and the pump has died. He would need to order new parts (if possible) or a brand new dishwasher was needed.

The agent has told us that the landlord wants us to pay for a brand new integrated dishwasher, alike to the one from 2006. He claims it is our fault it broke. I responded that the food build up could have equally been from the tenants before.

Where do I stand?

Not sure where you stand legally, but I'd be surprised if a dishwasher reaching the end of its life after more than 15 years in a rental property wasn't considered reasonable wear and tear that the landlord should anticipate.
If the landlord didn't want to be responsible for white goods, surely he would rent out the flat without white goods.

Seems a bit underhand to me.

Wear and tear. Landlord should pay up.

Even if you did damage the dishwasher, the landlord is only entitled to claim what the dishwasher is worth not claim for a brand new one. I can’t imagine a fifteen year old dishwasher is worth anything anyway.

I would remind the agency of this but also refuse to pay. It’s got to be previous tenants

It's illegal for the landlord to make you pay for a brand new dishwasher, even if it was your damage. Look at the betterment laws. It's 15 years old and you've lived there 4 months.

Landlord supplies the appliance, then landlord is responsible for these being serviceable. You took on the flat with rent including a working dishwasher, the fact that it’s 15yrs old and now broken is not your fault.

As pp states, if it is proven you caused the issue, you’re only liable for a like-for-like replacement in any respect (as in, what it was like when you moved in, not when it was brand new)

To be fair to the landlord, if he’s being told by the professional that it’s your fault, then if course he’s going to expect you to pay for it. Even old appliances can be broken by misuse.

You need to let him know that you don’t think you should have to pay and let him know how you have looked after it since you’ve been there.

A machine that has been broken by being clogged with food is negligence/misuse not wear and tear, so normally whoever clogged it would be liable. If it can be repaired, the landlord can charge for the repair if it was your fault.

I would write to the landlord and state:

1. You are not responsible for clogging it, you always rinse dishes, clean the filter etc

I would question how it managed to get clogged internally anyway, surely the filter should stop anything getting through? Or was the filter clogged on the day the engineer visited?

1. The dishwasher is over 15 years old and it would be betterment for the landlord to charge you for a new dishwasher to replace an old one. The cost should be apportioned to compensate the landlord of any "lost" years of usage based on the average life expectancy of th item. The TDS gives 15 years as the life expectancy of a high end dishwasher so you shouldn't have to pay anything towards a new dishwasher.

I've had a quick Google on how to value domestic appliances. Basically you divide the cost by the life expectancy and then calculate how much it's worth based on its expected remaining useful life. So, roughly, an appliance that is half-way through its expected lifespan would be worth half the price of a new one.

Another quick Google suggests that the expected lifespan of a dishwasher is between 10 and 15 years, depending on quality. Let's assume that yours is top quality and therefor expected to last for 15 years. It's now 14 years old, so a like for like replacement would be 1 fifteenth of the price of a new one (because it only had one year remaining out of an expected 15). And that's only if the landlord could prove that you were the cause of it breaking and not a previous tenant.

Show landlord receipts for cleaning product. (x4)
Tell him you are not prepared to fund a new one after just four months use of an old machine. Is the repairman a friend of his?

He's being a cheeky mfo.
I massively abuse ours by not rinsing plates. It's what they're designed for. If you're going to prerinse then you are massively wasting time, water and energy.

@Itsnottheendoftheworldisit

Wear and tear. Landlord should pay up.

Definately there is nothing in your contract to say you have to replace appliances is there?

If there was such a clause, I think it would be unenforceable?

Landlord should pay.

It's 15 years old wear and tear, tell him to whistle!

I’m a LL
No way would I expect out tenants to pay.

We have some of the strictest tenant responsibilities in Switzerland especially around replacing appliances but even here.. it’s based on the condition and age at when you take over the property, everything has a useful life and you only pay for the remaining portion, you have renters insurance which covers accidental damage and there is a wear and tear allowance though landlords are notorious at expecting things to be in better shape when you leave than when you arrive. There is no planet on which you could be expected to pay for this. You could ask for guidance from the company who hold your rental deposit. I would also point out to the agent that a fifteen year old dishwasher has reached the end of its life and no amount of misuse in 4 months can have resulted in excessive wear to the motor.

It’s the landlord’s job. I’m a landlord and it’s my job to repair or replace all white goods provided with the tenancy.

Did you hear this directly from the repairman that it was your fault, or via the landlord?
Taking them at their word that it is your fault, at the very most you're responsible for the value of a 15 year old dishwasher. Which would be practically nothing! He's having a laugh to expect you replace with something brand new.

The repair man presumably doesn’t know that you’ve been there only 15 months?

He is presumably advising that the user of the machine has done the damage, not knowing that you were there for a matter of weeks only? Can you speak with him and ask how long such a clog would take to build up and how long he would expect the pump to last if used properly?

Surely anyone with half a brain knows that a 15 year old dishwasher that you’ve only used for 4 months which broke due to clogging building up is unlikely to be your fault.

Clogging doesn’t build up in 4 months. That’s 12 weeks. Used say three times a week, that’s only 36 times. That’s nothing in a machine designed to last a decade with use daily.

You could seek a second opinion. Or speak to the letting agent and see if they realise the machine is 15 years old.

No way I’d be paying for it. He can claim his landlords insurance. He won’t as they will say it’s wear and tear that caused it and not pay out.

I’d not offer any money as that could be taken as you accepting liability. The most I’d pay is 1/15 of the pump replacement cost - even if I were to accept responsibility. So that’s like £25 or something.

Your landlords a stingy arsehole. Take this event as a warning that you need to expect choppy waters ahead with that arse.

This is a pdf from the TDS that lays out the life expectancy @chesirecat99 mentions. I would share this with your landlord.
www.tenancydepositscheme.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/A_Guide_to_product_lifespans.pdf

Refuse to pay. It's his responsibility. If he wants to scrap it fine but if you y your own ( non fitted dishwasher) then t is yours and will be taken with you or sold when you move. bp

Many LLs don’t supply white goods, because if they do, they are responsible for their replacement. The LL is responsible here.

When you respond. , don’t make a big thing of the fact it’s been,waned etc.

Quite simply, state that the dishwasher that is supplied as part of the contract has broken down. The repairman says it is 15 years old, so you’d like to know if the LL will be replacing or repairing it. Say you understand repairs can take a while but you’d very much like to have a working dishwasher within 2 weeks.

Do you rent through an agent? If so, copy them in.

If the LL argues you should replace it as it was clogged etc, don’t get into that. Simply state it is a 15 year old machine and they all have a life span. Simply say you have run it as the instructions stated. Remind him that he is responsible for white goods as they are supplied with the property. You look forward to the repair or replacement of the item that is included in your rent as a matter of urgency.

We had to have a new dishwasher and landlord paid for it.

Landlord is responsible (as both a landlord and a renter).

If he got difficult, and it went to the deposit tribunal, he would have to justify the original state of the dishwasher when you moved in, or he cannot prove the damage is yours, and it's his problem.

Since I rather doubt he took pictures of the food filter and the wear level of the pump (did he have it serviced before you moved in? Doubt that too) then he doesn't have a leg to stand on.

I imagine e it is clogging because the pump is too old to clear things properly. Not the other way round