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Original poster

Offer accepted! But is third bedroom actually a third bedroom?

90 replies

Catnipdelight · 30/01/2022 08:29

Last night found a property (at last) that ticked all our boxes and had an offer accepted (£5k over asking). There were seven offers yesterday after 20 viewings (madness).

We have stretched our budget for this place as we really love it... but DP has just raised a potential issue. The smallest bedroom has a vaulted ceiling which actually only has a skylight, no windows.

Can this actually be classed as a bedroom? I don't want to get to the mortgage valuation and find it is only classed as a 2 bed, mainly because we won't have the money to bridge the gap. I still love the property, it's more a technicality that means we are paying over the odds for what is on paper a 2 bed.

The agent and listing had it as a 3 bed so I wouldn't even have queried it but DP has had experience of all the regs with bedrooms after having his own issues with a conversion he did.

Do we raise it now, or risk the undervaluation and hope they are prepared to reduce the price a bit?

OP posts:
mindutopia · 30/01/2022 11:37

We bought a 5 bedroom house with two bedrooms with only velux windows (which we’ll use as an office and a guest room). No issues with valuation (even with us offering 10% over guide price). The only issue is that they can be really hot in summer (which is not very comfortable at night).

Original poster
Catnipdelight · 30/01/2022 11:55

@Toanewstart22

What is the actual dimensions of the room
(3.28m x 2.77m (10'9 x 9'1))
OP posts:
LIZS · 30/01/2022 11:57

A velux may be fine as an opening escape but in op case its height makes it impossible to use without a ladder.

Original poster
Catnipdelight · 30/01/2022 12:09

@mindutopia

We bought a 5 bedroom house with two bedrooms with only velux windows (which we’ll use as an office and a guest room). No issues with valuation (even with us offering 10% over guide price). The only issue is that they can be really hot in summer (which is not very comfortable at night).
That's interesting. Can I ask how high the velux windows are? (I.e is it realistic to imagine someone being able to climb out of one)?
OP posts:
VanGoghsDog · 30/01/2022 12:11

[quote LIZS]@BoredZelda it is not classified as a habitable room without br sign off, whether that is now or ten years ago, therefore makes a potential difference to mortgage valuation. You can use a non habitable room however you choose but it is not officially a bedroom or living room without. [/quote]
How does the mortgage company find out about any building regs sign off? The last house I bought with a mortgage they did a desktop valuation, which I gather means they just look at the sales of similar size houses in the area and just decide based on it fitting in that range.

They neither request nor see the conveyancing.

Re the EA fee, I've never heard of this, but as you have this specific concern I'd make it clear that you will only pay it if the mortgage valuation doesn't come back as required for you to be able to move forward.

Do you know if the current vendors did the work themselves? If so, or even if not, they may have documentation for it, so get the EA to ask them about this sooner rather than later - don't wait for the conveyancing.

LIZS · 30/01/2022 12:42

The mortgage valuation may well highlight it as a query.

Daftasabroom · 30/01/2022 13:01

All bedrooms need a means of escape, this has been a requirement for decades. I'm sorry but that is not a bedroom.

ballsdeep · 30/01/2022 13:07

It makes me feel extremely claustrophobic looking at it.

Original poster
Catnipdelight · 30/01/2022 13:23

@Daftasabroom

All bedrooms need a means of escape, this has been a requirement for decades. I'm sorry but that is not a bedroom.
Yes. I think it's extremely cheeky actually that the EA listed it as such. I've checked the old listing from 3 years ago as well and it's listed as a 3 bed there. I can't imagine that no-one has picked this up as a potential issue -- surely someone must have actually considered this? Are they just chancing it?
OP posts:
VanGoghsDog · 30/01/2022 13:46

@LIZS

The mortgage valuation may well highlight it as a query.
But how?
Daftasabroom · 30/01/2022 13:53

@Catnipdelight all habitable rooms need a means of escape if there is fire blocking the entrance. Where there is only one entrance this will usually be via a window which will have to be at a particular height and have a minimum opening size. The EA should know this.

LIZS · 30/01/2022 13:59

The mortgage company can see the report and retain until query resolved, the surveyor may value on basis of 2 bed not 3. Most surveyors are risk averse.

Original poster
Catnipdelight · 30/01/2022 14:20

@VanGoghsDog

By valuing it and seeing that it’s a 3 bed, not a 2?

OP posts:
Original poster
Catnipdelight · 30/01/2022 14:21

@VanGoghsDog I meant to say, going round and valuing it and seeing it’s a 2 bed, not a three…

OP posts:
Soontobe60 · 30/01/2022 14:25

@Toanewstart22

Easy Just ask tomorrow for the council sign off of the works the vendors have done
Don’t do this! The surveyor will pick up on this, as will the mortgage provider. At worst, the sellers will have to purchase an indemnity policy to cover the issue. If it is an issue, you can always reduce your offer after the survey,
Soontobe60 · 30/01/2022 14:29

@Daftasabroom

All bedrooms need a means of escape, this has been a requirement for decades. I'm sorry but that is not a bedroom.
That doesn’t mean it has to be a window, especially if it’s only on the first floor. As long as there is an escape route it’s ok.
gogohm · 30/01/2022 14:32

Forget the window. You don't pay the estate agent if you are buying, only selling! There's no deposit to pay

Drunkpanda · 30/01/2022 14:36

Some hotels offer windowless rooms - will they have some other form of escape? (Secret passage?) May well have changed now but was common when I was young for student flats to have one room that was described as a boxroom and rented out to sleep in. The room in the OP's potential house sounds like a great home office rather than a good bedroom.

VanGoghsDog · 30/01/2022 14:37

@LIZS

The mortgage company can see the report and retain until query resolved, the surveyor may value on basis of 2 bed not 3. Most surveyors are risk averse.
Sorry, what "report"?

There was no report sent to my mortgage company. There was no survey. They did a desktop valuation only one and I didn't do one at all.

I agree they do sometimes use surveyors but for the mortgage valuation they don't always even go in the house.

VanGoghsDog · 30/01/2022 14:39

[quote Catnipdelight]@VanGoghsDog

By valuing it and seeing that it’s a 3 bed, not a 2?[/quote]
That's my point. What do you mean by "seeing it"?

They may well just do a desktop valuation. Or they sometimes do drive past ones. I've not had a surveyor go into the house at all for the last two houses I had with a mortgage.

And I've not commissioned my own survey on my current or last house.

KickAssAngel · 30/01/2022 14:41

I live in the US and it is now standard practice to put down a deposit as a sign of serious intent once an offer had been accepted. The market is moving so fast that it makes sure both parties are committed so the seller doesn't try to accept a higher offer and the buyer proceeds, unless there's a problem with the survey. It is serious money, though. Thousands!

It sounds like the EA is trying to do similar, but I'm the US the agent is also your solicitor so the money is properly protected.

Original poster
Catnipdelight · 30/01/2022 14:44

@VanGoghsDog there's no way I'd let them do only a desktop valuation on it though? Why would I want to pay for a 3 bed that's actually a. 2 bed?

OP posts:
bigbluebus · 30/01/2022 14:59

I wouldn't rely on what Estate agents call it. When my parent's property was marketed by the Executors (professional not family) they advertised it using 2 agents. One listed it as 2 bedrooms, the other listed it as 4. They were side by side on Rightmove. The issue was how steep the staircase was (chalet bungalow) but the stairs were built in 1960's when the house was built with one bedroom upstairs. The additional bedroom was added in the 1970's. It all met with regs/permission at the time it was done.
You need to see the pp and building regs sign off from when the room was built to check it complied then. Current regs aren't relevant.

BuanoKubiamVej · 30/01/2022 15:28

You need to see the pp and building regs sign off from when the room was built to check it complied then. Current regs aren't relevant.

^ This.

If it didn't comply, do not accept an indemnity policy as a resolution. These are practically worthless as all they do is pay for the illegal work to be undone (which in this case would return the property to being an obvious 2 bed which isn't what you want) and the policy only pays out even for this if you did nothing to alert the council to a problem (such as asking them to confirm that there is no building regs signoff) so I doubt that they ever actually pay out.

VanGoghsDog · 30/01/2022 16:12

[quote Catnipdelight]@VanGoghsDog there's no way I'd let them do only a desktop valuation on it though? Why would I want to pay for a 3 bed that's actually a. 2 bed?[/quote]
What do you mean "let them"?

You don't get to choose how the mortgage company carries out their valuation.

Look, ask for the building regs info from the conversion via the EA (I assume it is some kind of conversion) so you can see it was all registered and commission your own surveyor. Also, make this weird deposit thing dependent on this getting the right valuation from the mortgage co - which you can't move forward without anyway.

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