Grade II Listed - tell me everything I need to know

[KimDeals]

I am frantically trying to buy a family home. Nigh on impossible, just got outbid again on Monday on a fingers-crossed ‘I think this is the one’ house. And immediately after a charming house appeared online and softened the blow… somehow I failed to notice it is a Grade II listed building. (No beams, no thatch, but lovely gentle what I would call “the pastors house” kind of building!)

I have no leanings either way on this fact but I must be practical. I am viewing it Friday. I will do a full survey IF I even get to that point (sick of jumping the gun now) … but ahead of all of that, can you please educate me on what I should look out for immediately, what I should ask? Any pointers really appreciated!

Many thanks!

Ooh, just seen the link - it’s rather lovely, isn’t it!

You asked about floors - if they are part of the original building you probably won’t be able to rip them out, but can cover them I’d have thought, as long as the original fabric is protected and not damaged.

The windows seem to be an important feature - take a good look at the condition of them. Again, unlikely you’d be able to replace them, so ideally they’d be well maintained and have good secondary glazing.

That is absolutely lovely. Unless a survey shows up something dreadful I would snap that up before anyone else does!

Re listed buildings (we've done up our own, plus DH is a builder and worked on lots of them) yes, you will need listed building consent to extend or alter it. Also to change windows and doors, things like changing the use of a shed to an office space. Basically it's more forms to fill in and boxes to tick.
So: for example, the windows need replacement, you want a Upvc front door and it needs pointing? The windows would need to be like for like, or preferably repaired not replaced. In really old houses the conservation officer can insist on secondary double glazing rather than getting rid of 200 year old glass.
You probably won't be allowed a upvc door either. Pointing would have to be done with lime mortar, not cement.
(Better for the house, not really more expensive to do, but a bit more skilled)
So: with a listed building, you think of your self as a custodian or guardian rather than being able to completely gut the place and convert it with lots of steel and glass.

FYI- not to put you off but don’t underestimate the running costs with a period property often much less energy efficient and that coupled with increased insurance and continued maintenance required can add up to 10s of 1000s a year.

It can be a pain. It can take years to get approval for repairs. Listed buildings can be expensive to heat if you have large, draughty single glazed windows. You may well not be able to have a satellite dish or CCTV cameras or visible burglar alarms etc You may be stuck with ugly unoriginal features that can't be changed because they are part of the architectural history of the building.

You need to check the listing for the building to see what is included. You might find that the interior isn't listed, which makes things a lot easier.

It may be fine, you just need to do your research. The 2 biggest issues are heating costs and whether there are any restrictions on the interior.

@KimDeals jealous!!!! I wish I could get that in Essex for that price!

I am confused as the windows (which have been our money sinkhole) look to be Upvc. We aren’t allowed double glazing or Upvc so have to have our leaded glass Crittall style windows redone every 5 years and the appearance cannot be changed at all.

Those windows don’t look like a money sinkhole but I’m no expert. And in my 20’s when we bought our place I thought “every 5 years” was a long time apart. Ha. It isn’t.

It’s a lovely place and I hope you are in with a chance! Good luck.

[quote areyouhavingagiraffe]@KimDeals jealous!!!! I wish I could get that in Essex for that price![/quote]
I’m jealous too I highly doubt it will go at that price!! I was outbid on a v v regular family home with multiple bidders clawing at it, so I presume most of them will come down and have a go at this house now too!

It’s so impossible right now!

@YooCoo

I am confused as the windows (which have been our money sinkhole) look to be Upvc. We aren’t allowed double glazing or Upvc so have to have our leaded glass Crittall style windows redone every 5 years and the appearance cannot be changed at all.

Those windows don’t look like a money sinkhole but I’m no expert. And in my 20’s when we bought our place I thought “every 5 years” was a long time apart. Ha. It isn’t.

It’s a lovely place and I hope you are in with a chance! Good luck.

That’s really interesting I will ask about the windows - thank you!

@Bex000

FYI- not to put you off but don’t underestimate the running costs with a period property often much less energy efficient and that coupled with increased insurance and continued maintenance required can add up to 10s of 1000s a year.

It’s so true and given I work from Home, I am heating a house for just me 9 - 5. Definitely something I need to consider.

To be honest I think the house will get snapped up and unfortunately won’t be my problem the interest in houses is on fire at the moment round here.

You need to check the listing for the building to see what is included. You might find that the interior isn't listed, which makes things a lot easier.

This is absolutely not the case. The whole building, inside and out, including everything within the curtilage, is listed. Features mentioned on the listing are for identification purposes and to document anything of particular note, but EVERYTHING is included under the listing protection. Do not believe estate agents, sellers or random people on Mumsnet who tell you otherwise!

Never not lived in a listed house. This one is triple grade 2 listed: house, stables, outbuildings. Never found it a problem but then, I don’t feel the need for radical changes.

No advice but the house is extremely pretty, I can see why you want it!

@umbel

You need to check the listing for the building to see what is included. You might find that the interior isn't listed, which makes things a lot easier.

This is absolutely not the case. The whole building, inside and out, including everything within the curtilage, is listed. Features mentioned on the listing are for identification purposes and to document anything of particular note, but EVERYTHING is included under the listing protection. Do not believe estate agents, sellers or random people on Mumsnet who tell you otherwise!

You are wrong. The interior isn't always included.

The listing usually says this:

"Unless the List entry states otherwise, it includes both the structure itself and any object or structure fixed to it (whether inside or outside) as well as any object or structure within the curtilage of the building."

The interior of our home is not included in the listing.

OMG that house is a bargain and gorgeous!

@cheshirecat99 read it again. It doesn’t say what you think it does.

It means exactly what I think it means @umbel. What do you think it means?

"Unless the List entry states otherwise, it includes both the structure itself and any object or structure fixed to it (whether inside or outside) as well as any object or structure within the curtilage of the building."

Unless the List entry states otherwise was meant to be bold

@chesirecat99 exactly, so UNLESS it says specifically in the listing that the interior of your property is not included, then it is included. Not the easiest sentence structure to parse, but my reading of it is correct.

The Listed Property Owners Club explains it thus: Contrary to popular belief, listing normally protects the entire building both inside and out and any structures which are either attached to the building (including modern extensions) or fall within its curtilage (if they were built before 1948). It sometimes includes garden walls, outbuildings and even statuary within the garden.

Historic England say: Listing covers a whole building, including the interior, unless parts of it are specifically excluded in the list description.

If you own a listed building and were unaware of this, you might find you have inadvertently broken the law.

We moved out of our listed cottage after 4 years, it was a money pit and everything took so long to organise. We couldnt even put raised beds in the vegetable garden without permission. Even now I'm still half expecting to be contacted over something we did that we shouldnt have and be liable for it. The listed building inspectors used to come sneaking round taking photos of our houses and gardens. You couldnt change the colour of the front door without permission-which they wouldnt give.
I'd never buy listed again.

@chesirecat99 You are wrong

The whole property is covered by the listing including any outbuildings and modern additions. I've been in planning over 30 years - this is definitely the case.

If you own a listed building and were unaware of this, you might find you have inadvertently broken the law.

So you are advising that I check the listing for my home to see if I am correct that it's interior is excluded, @umbel? Which is exactly what I advised OP to do...

You need to check the listing for the building to see what is included. You might find that the interior isn't listed, which makes things a lot easier.

Obviously, I'm not going to post the listing for my home as an example but I thought it would be implicit in the quote that I posted from the phrase "unless the list entry states otherwise" that some list entries don't include both the interior and exterior, or outbuildings etc ie they "state otherwise".

I agree the quote you found is clearer: Listing covers a whole building, including the interior, unless parts of it are specifically excluded in the list description.

@Janedownourlane

We moved out of our listed cottage after 4 years, it was a money pit and everything took so long to organise. We couldnt even put raised beds in the vegetable garden without permission. Even now I'm still half expecting to be contacted over something we did that we shouldnt have and be liable for it. The listed building inspectors used to come sneaking round taking photos of our houses and gardens. You couldnt change the colour of the front door without permission-which they wouldnt give. I'd never buy listed again.

That does sound like a nightmare. I can imagine the need to get permission having an effect on the feeling of it being your own house given so many other people can grant or stop your functional plans.

Just bought I’d update you all - thanks for all the pointers so far!

I viewed the house today and it’s so charming, really really charming.

I now have a bit of thinking to do, I may be back with more questions
Thank you all for the great advice so far!

*thought!

I'd bear in mind that austerity has hit conservation departments hard.

When I moved in, you could ring the conservation officer for some advice. Now most of them are gone, it's written enquiries only and even then they will probably say we can't help until you send in an application.

No one is turning up checking you haven't hung a picture up. They haven't the staff.