Buying a 1st floor flat in a purpose built flat in London - go or no go?

[katherinekaka]

Hello! I’m hoping to buy a 1 bedroom flat around London, and there’s this flat on the 1st floor which I like (there are 8 floors in total in the building). It is located 5 min walk from a tube station (Zone 5 but on the metropolitan line - 30 min away from Baker Street), a decent size for my budget.

However, my mom from overseas is cautioning against buying a 1st floor flat as she thinks the level is too that it will be hard to sell the property later down the line. I don’t know whether this is true - do people not like 1st floor flats in a purpose-built block? It's been challenging to find a flat that I like so I would appreciate any insights on whether being on the 1st floor is indeed a deal breaker?

Also during my search I’ve seen a lot of people saying they don’t like purpose-built flats (the one I’m looking at was built in 2017) and prefer Victorian conversion. IMO I prefer these modern developments as I thought the specs would be new and maintenance would be lower. Why is it that people say Victorian conversions hold better value?

I don’t know much about the property market in London/ the UK so would appreciate any advice/ tips. Thank you!

What's her issue with the first floor? I'm first floor and I can't imagine it being a problem to sell.

I'm in a new flat and it's great. It's twice the size of a Victorian conversion at least and the sound proofing is amazing - can't hear a thing. Everyone I know who's lived in Victorian properties has been driven mad by neighbour noise. It's really secure. Modern heating and electrics etc. Good windows, big balcony. Yes, no Victorian 'character' but I've made it nice, and it isn't drafty and damp.

Look at service charges and the lease.

I'm sure if you were rich you'd be buying a big freehold house with no service charge etc but if you're looking at one bed flats there will always be a compromise.

Can I just check - given your Mum is from overseas, do you mean the ground floor flat or the next level up?

If it's the ground floor flat, I do understand what your Mum means; that 1st floor flats are considered safer for single women - can't quote you any evidence for their lack of safety.

Some people like Victorian conversions and some like new build - 6 or one and half a dozen of the other! Don't let this put you off. Agree with Blinkabout checking the lease and service charges

What is your Mum specifically concerned about? My understanding is that 1st and 2nd floor are best places to be (ie, not on the ground/street level but not too high up either!). I'm not a property expert though.

Steer well clear of Victorian conversions! The first flat I bought in London was a 1st floor Victorian conversion and the soundproofing was diabolical!! I could almost make out what the people above and below me were saying when they were talking in a normal voice. Also had mice coming in from adjoining property.

Similar problems in other Victorian properties I stayed in, but never had any problems in purpose built flats.

If by first floor you mean the one directly above ground level ( so UK 1st floor not US 1st floor which I think would be UK ground floor ) then I think UK first floor are generally considered the more desirable. On a v practical note you probably don't want a flat right by the front door to the block where you can hear the front door to the block opening and closing whenever someone comes in or goes out.

Piano nobile is what I think Italians refer to as the "best" floor in the house and that tends to be the floor or even 2 above the ground floor

Good advice re lease and service charges - but otherwise if you like it and close to tube - well I would do it. Paint and blinds / curtains / your own things can very easily make a house / flat into a home

Friend of mine has a modern flat and it is exquisite - he has decorated and furnished so well.

One more point - another friend of mine had the most lovely modern flat for a long while - make sure the lease is long or understand how and at what cost & how easy to extend it - so she ended up with 69 years on the lease and it was the devil's own job to get it extended to more than 99. For resale - it was not the fact it was modern - it was the short lease. Some have 999 year leases - I think ( and there will be those more knowledgeable than I ) 99 years is what I think people are generally people are looking for.

I wish you luck @katherinekaka & I hope if you like the flat it works out well

Yes do you mean actual first floor as we call it in the U.K. (as in the first floor up the stairs) or ground floor at street level (which a lot of other countries call first floor?)

I think period conversion vs modern new build is personal preference, I personally generally prefer period but wouldnt have ruled out modern for a flat because of better soundproofing etc, but that conversions may well “hold their value” better as they are less of an unknown quantity for many people? Also I would only want to live on the ground (street level/basement) floor, if that is what you mean, if it meant I could have a private garden/outside space. Otherwise I’d much rather to be a slightly higher floor for security reasons, ideally with a balcony. But not too high in case of fire etc….unless being higher up came with amazing views!!! So many variables to think about!

I'd be concerned about street noise/late night revellers etc. Unless the windows are very sound proofed? And if it's hot and you want to open the windows, you will hear neighbours in the communal gardens (if they have them) or people going past. I lived in a 1st floor new build once ...

I was going to ask if there was a difference in terminology too. In the UK, ground floor is the flat at street level and first floor is the level above.

People worry that basement and ground floor flats are less secure - especially in summer when you might want to keep the windows open - so that might affect the resale value compared with a first floor flat.

Conversions are very variable. Some of the older ones done in the 1980s are not very sympathetic to the original building and were often done on the cheap so have poor soundproofing. However, one reason why some people prefer conversions is that there are fewer neighbours as it would be rare to have more than 4 floors. A designated parking space and/or access to a garden is often a bonus too.

@Blinkinname @DPotter @chat**@chatw0o0 @BasiliskStare @LemonViolet @silentpool @nettie434

Thank you so much everyone - this is really helpful! By first floor I was referring to one floor above the ground. I think her problem with first floor is because where we are from, there are no ground floor flats (the ground floor usually is just the reception), meaning the first-floor ones would be the lowest level, e.g. if there are any plumbing problems in the building, the smell on the first floor would be horrible. So she told me it's much harder to sell those flats unless with a huge price cut, but I'm glad to learn that it doesn't seem to be a problem in the UK!

Thank you for all your advice about new flats vs. Victorian conversions as well! The one that I'm looking at has 244 lease years left, £350 ground rent and £1000 service charge per year - so this seems to be reasonable? I also asked about cladding and the estate agent told me there should be no external cladding as only brick is visible. Re. outdoor space, there is a small balcony but would say it's good enough for my budget (although with COVID I guess people are looking for more outdoor spaces now...).

There is gated access for different building blocks, and the flat faces an internal communal area rather than the street (it's not really a garden though, more like an area that allows you to walk into different blocks). I guess there could be noise from the communal area but hopefully won't be as bad as being close to the street. I will make sure to check if it's above the front door when I go in for a second viewing this weekend.

Thank you all so much again

@katherinekaka, having just sold a flat (albeit second floor), please take a look at how the ground rent changes - look at the lease. This is really important, some have "doubling clauses" and you need to be aware of this as it COULD be an issue. I say because it depends on rate of doubling. Also, I know I am stating the obvious, but look at the build, any cladding? Balconies? Or is it traditional brick materials.

Good luck op! Sounds good to me. Good news there isn't any cladding but ask to see the ESW1 form.

Lease issues often. Big cladding scandal at the moment too (and not just cladding but insulation materials). Does it have a EWS certification? One beds will be the first to devalue in a house price crash.

I'd look for something else.

Don't take anything the estate agent says at face value. They're not working for you so make sure you get a good survey if you go ahead.

@Blinkinname

Good luck op! Sounds good to me. Good news there isn't any cladding but ask to see the ESW1 form.

Thank you! I asked to see the ESW1 form and the rating is B1, where combustible materials are present in external wall but the fire risk is sufficiently low that no remedial works are required. Would you have any insights into whether this is good or bad? I saw that most mortgage lenders are happy with this as no remedial works is required, but from other posts on mumsnet some people say it is still best to avoid given that there are some combustible materials in the wall, vs. some people who say it is fine. Given the mixed views on this would love to hear from you as well if you know anything about the B1 rating please? @Blinkinname

@Turmerictolly

Lease issues often. Big cladding scandal at the moment too (and not just cladding but insulation materials). Does it have a EWS certification? One beds will be the first to devalue in a house price crash.

I'd look for something else.

Thank you! I asked to see the ESW1 form and the rating is B1, where combustible materials are present in external wall but the fire risk is sufficiently low that no remedial works are required. Would you have any insights into whether this is good or bad? I saw that most mortgage lenders are happy with this as no remedial works is required, but from other posts on mumsnet some people say it is still best to avoid given that there are some combustible materials in the wall, vs. some people who say it is fine. Given the mixed views on this would love to hear from you as well if you know anything about the B1 rating please? @Turmerictolly

[quote areyouhavingagiraffe]@katherinekaka, having just sold a flat (albeit second floor), please take a look at how the ground rent changes - look at the lease. This is really important, some have "doubling clauses" and you need to be aware of this as it COULD be an issue. I say because it depends on rate of doubling. Also, I know I am stating the obvious, but look at the build, any cladding? Balconies? Or is it traditional brick materials.[/quote]
@areyouhavingagiraffe thank you for the advice! Where can I look at the lease? Is that something that the estate agent can provide me with?

There are balconies and the ESW1 form rating s B1, where combustible materials are present in external wall but the fire risk is sufficiently low that no remedial works are required. Would you have any insights into whether this is good or bad?
I saw that most mortgage lenders are happy with this as no remedial works is required, but from other posts on mumsnet some people say it is still best to avoid given that there are some combustible materials in the wall, vs. some people who say it is fine.
Given the mixed views on this would love to hear from you as well if you know anything about the B1 rating please?

@katherinekaka, I am not sure about B1 rating. I suppose you have to factor in that lenders requirements may change going forward.
With regards to the lease, your Solicitor would obtain that as part of the conveyancing....not sure how progressed you are with the Sale, but if early days I would ask the EA about the ground rent and how this changes in the future

If you mean what in the U.K. is ground floor (1st floor in the US) then the reason some people won’t want them is because of security - and you can’t open bedroom windows at night even in a heatwave.

When I was looking at flats with a dd (for her) the first thing we told the estate agents was, absolutely nothing on the ground floor. She’d lived in one like that and said, Never again!

As for period conversions, the maintenance charges will usually be lower, often quite a bit lower, since no lift, etc. Plus they will often have character features, higher ceilings, etc., which are important to some people.

I think it comes down to preference. I would only buy ground floor garden flats with share of freehold. I think generally period conversion hold more value than purpose built but not always.

If you are buying you must see the lease and get your solicitor to look it over. I’d expect the estate agent to be able to tell you the headlines (like ground rent and period of increase), if they can’t then you need sight of it before you start spending money on surveys and solicitors as it could be a deal breaker. If you do start the ball rolling with solicitors the first thing they need to do is check the lease over in detail (as do you) and then move on to all the other stuff. Don’t spend money on searches and conveyancing until you know how the lease operates.

I would never buy a Victorian conversion again. You can hear your neighbours cough, talk, walk, snore etc etc and smell everything they are cooking. Awful.
Definitely go for a purpose built.

We have aflat in central London and all the buildings are very similar. The first and second floors are most sought after and command a higher price per square foot. Basement, ground and top floor is least desirable.