Burglar Alarms, info please

[TrickyD]

I posted a day or two ago mentioning that we have changed from ADT to Verisure.
Our contact with ADT runs out on 5 Feb, and I have cancelled it from then.
I told ADT that I was not bothered about having PIRs and Vibes removed as they are unobtrusive and wired in.
They replied that I must have the control panel disconnected. They would charge £75.
She did say it was an easy job and we could get a local electrician to disconnect it.
Apparently even when the system is not monitored, if there is a power cut, the alarm will go off.
We have had the system for 20 years and can recall no power cut ever setting it off. Is what she said true?

Or this just a way of getting £75 out of us?

It is a ploy by ADT

You might have thought the kit was yours and you had bought and paid for it. They make life difficult for you to make you pay.

Most likely your new installer will know how to disconnect it.

If you were to turn off the power, the siren might sound for 20 minutes if the battery is good. With the power off it will not recharge so will not keep on sounding.

Out of curiosity, why did you choose verisure?

Thank you, PigletJohn. Yes, probably an ADT money grubbing ploy.

If turning off the power would make the siren sound, wouldn't it do that if a local electrician, as suggested by ADT, disconnected it?

Our Verisure installer has been and gone. We have both systems running until Feb.

Peas252, we had the ADT system for 20 years and were very happy with it until the last year. It has been incredibly difficult to get hold of them to get an engineer out or speak to anyone.
The keypad has worn out, some of the rubber under the buttons has failed, so it became very temperamental. We asked ADT about replacing the system. They estimated over the phone without considering we might need vibes etc in different places because of building alterations.
Verisure sent out an installer the day I phoned them, and he suggested changes in location of devices which made sense.
Both the installation and monthly charges were lower than ADT.
Early days, but we are keeping our fingers crossed that the new system continues to be satisfactory.

@TrickyD

Thank you, PigletJohn. Yes, probably an ADT money grubbing ploy.

If turning off the power would make the siren sound, wouldn't it do that if a local electrician, as suggested by ADT, disconnected it?

Our Verisure installer has been and gone. We have both systems running until Feb.

If you have an external siren on the wall of the house, and it has a backup battery inside, it is supposed to go off if the wire is cut, and possibly if the control panel loses both mains power and standby battery. It probably has an anti-tamper control that can be temporarily turned off during repairs, but I don't know how the ADT one works.

External sirens are (supposed to be) set so they will not sound for more than 20 minutes, to limit neighbour annoyance. It takes less time than that to climb up a ladder and unscrew it from the wall (or use certain other techniques to muffle it). They are generally positioned where it will be difficult for a burglar to reach them, and where any approach will be visible.

Thanks again, PigletJohn.
Fortuitously, new installer rang a while ago, checking up on how we are getting on, and even more fortuitously his dad works for ADT and he will ask him for suggestions.

ADT are certainly not the same well-thought of company they were in the 80s or 90s. They never would have covered the type of housing and shops they do now.

The banks encouraged ADT to come over from the states. It was when Tyco etc. got involved that they started going downhill. Then when they swopped a monitoring centre for ASH that they inherited an MD with the mindset of install at a loss but make it up in recurring revenue. Bad move. They started using dealerships to install (usually poorly) low cost intruder alarms in small houses and retail units. Dealerships got paid a small sum to install but ADT made sure they got the annual £££.

OP. Various authorities rule what the sounder timer is. Can be 15/20 minutes. But that is when the alarm is triggered. When there is a power fail the back up battery will run the system. If the power isn't turned back on before the battery is flat the system shuts down, and the external sounder battery takes over. The sounder battery also runs the sounder in the event that the cable to the sounder is cut. This can potentially run for hours until it too runs out of juice. The idea of tamper is that it can't be defeated without full access to the system.

If you are capable, you can power down the system, remove the main panel cover and disconnect the panel battery. You can then (with access to a ladder) disconnect and remove the ADT sounder.

Thank you very much, billyt for you explanation of ADT's deterioration.

Our installer has put us in touch with a friend who will sort us out for £50. Better than £75.

If the panel cover is removed, and the system powered down, will it be necessary to climb the ladder to remove the external ADT sounder? Can it just stay there with no connection to the system?

When I told ADT about terminating the contract, I was told the panel must be removed, either by them or by a 'local electrician', nothing about the external sounder.

I am hoping this will do the trick..

No problem TrickyD,

As said, if you power down the system (mains and battery) then the battery in the external sounder will operate.

One caveat to this is that some/most of the dealership systems were installed with a high decibel internal sounder and an external decoy sounder (there for show/advertising/deterrent.) If that is the case then powering down the system will not activate any sounder.

If you remove the main supply, remove the panel cover and disconnect/unplug one lead from the panel battery you'll soon know.

If the external sounder does activate then just reconnect the panel battery and enter your code to silence the alarm. Turn mains back on until you decide what to do.

As far as ADT only requiring the panel back. The external sounder isn't really worth that much used and it's seen as another ADT system as an advert, even if not current.

Thanks again for your help and patience, billyt. We have the installation you describe, high decibel inside, quieter outside.
I hope the installer’s friend who has offered to do this knows what he is doing. I assume he is an engineer himself.
I am starting to think that for the sake of the extra £25, it would be worth letting ADT sort it out themselves, annoying though that is.

We had an ADT system installed in a house we rented (installed with landlord permission). The new tenant moving in after us didn't want to pay the ongoing monthly charges, so I called ADT and asked them to put the system in maintenance mode (so it didn't sound when I cut the wires) and then I took it off the wall myself.

The sensors were all battery operated, so into need a small amount of filler and paint to make good.

I have zero diy skills, so it's definitely something you could do yourself.

I then still had to pay ADT for the monthly fees till the end of the contract. I wouldn't ever use them again, as they verbally told me on installation that they'd only charge me for 24 months (even though the contract said 36 months), but when it came to that point they reneged and charged me for the full 36 months!! Crooks.

@TrickyD please could you let me know how much you pay per month for Verisure? Interested in finding out how much it is monthly. Thank you

I'm interested in seeing how much Verisure charge and what for, as they offer varying levels of packages.

I just got a quote for £34.90 a month.

That's for 13 shock sensors and 1 photo detector. Installation and equipment quote is £410.

I don't like the Howdens pricing approach, as it seems to vary depending who you ask. Need to think about it more!!

@Redeyed

I'm interested in seeing how much Verisure charge and what for, as they offer varying levels of packages.

£22.90 a month, £624 installation

Nine vibes on doors and vulnerable windows, two indoor cameras, a smoke emitter (hope we won’t need this but included no charge) .
Monitoring, (very quick response when we set it off on first evening we had it) , in the event of a break in window boarded up and 24 hour guard, not sure for how long.,

Have a careful look at the boarding up and guard terms. I have a contract for that, but if needed, they charge me at the hourly rate for guards and repairs.

I took it out when I was away on business a lot.

PigletJohn, good advice, as always, thanks.
We are both retired and do not anticipate lengthy absences abroad but will scrutinise Ts&Cs.

The old system was decommissioned yesterday, the man who fixed it was ex-ADT, so he was familiar with the set up, and spoke on the phone to the relevant department so they were aware.

Fingers crossed for the future.

Thanks @TrickyD useful to know