SE London houses - what do you think?

[MrFirstTimeBuyer]

Hi everyone, first time poster, long time reader.

We want to buy a house for a young couple / family in SE London. Budget is around 1-1.25m, and main criteria are a nice/safe area, finished house (not in need of renovation), and decent commute.

Any thoughts on these? The prices seem a bit crazy compared to properties that sold just last year.

www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/118492337#/?channel=RES_BUY

www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/116841581#/?channel=RES_BUY

I'd rather be too conservative and miss out on the first couple, then overpay and regret later. What do you think? Any thoughts/advice greatly appreciated!

Honestly, if you work full time and plan on having children soon and your career is important to you, I would move somewhere future proof. Big enough house with constant neighbourhood/neighbours and good schools for primary and secondary. It is so much easier further down the line and the years pass so quickly. It is stressful enough having children and juggling a career, you don’t want to add moving and uprooting to the mix.

We wanted to stay in Central
London but moved just before our eldest started primary school because we noticed that many people moved further out for secondary schools and that it was stressful and disruptive for the children. If you can afford independent schools at secondary level for however many kids you want, it is less of an issue.
We actually bought our house from people whose children had gone to university so they were moving for less space but they knew the ins and outs of catchments and it has been such a breeze knowing they would get into a good primary and secondary schools with no further effort from us and that the neighbours were pretty constant. Local sense of community is actually really important and it is nice to have neighbours who tend to stay.
So for example in Beckenham, Langley park catchment, the charter school catchment in dulwich, the bullerswood catchment in bickley, Bromley, the Hayes school
Catchment in Hayes, Bromley to name a few. Or if you want grammar you go to tonbridge or sevenoaks. If you have girls, prendergast is great but who can predict that.
If you can afford private schools then dulwich offers a lot of choice outside the charter school catchment (for example if you are City lawyers, bankers or management consultants) or Wandsworth is fine too.

@Adastraperaspera

Honestly, if you work full time and plan on having children soon and your career is important to you, I would move somewhere future proof. Big enough house with constant neighbourhood/neighbours and good schools for primary and secondary. It is so much easier further down the line and the years pass so quickly. It is stressful enough having children and juggling a career, you don’t want to add moving and uprooting to the mix.

We wanted to stay in Central
London but moved just before our eldest started primary school because we noticed that many people moved further out for secondary schools and that it was stressful and disruptive for the children. If you can afford independent schools at secondary level for however many kids you want, it is less of an issue.
We actually bought our house from people whose children had gone to university so they were moving for less space but they knew the ins and outs of catchments and it has been such a breeze knowing they would get into a good primary and secondary schools with no further effort from us and that the neighbours were pretty constant. Local sense of community is actually really important and it is nice to have neighbours who tend to stay.
So for example in Beckenham, Langley park catchment, the charter school catchment in dulwich, the bullerswood catchment in bickley, Bromley, the Hayes school
Catchment in Hayes, Bromley to name a few. Or if you want grammar you go to tonbridge or sevenoaks. If you have girls, prendergast is great but who can predict that.
If you can afford private schools then dulwich offers a lot of choice outside the charter school catchment (for example if you are City lawyers, bankers or management consultants) or Wandsworth is fine too.

Hi - thanks for the detailed post. That's our thinking as well, and one of the reasons why we looked towards Beckenham in general since the secondaries seem better than in more central locations.

The last house I posted (www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/119497289) seems to be in the catchment area for Harris Academy Beckenham and for Harris Girls Academy Bromley. Is Langley Park much better?

@MrFirstTimeBuyer

Hi everyone,

we listened to the suggestions and walked around the areas in the last couple weeks (definitely walked over 50 miles in the wider beckenham/dulwich area in the last month). Our top areas have been Beckenham and East Dulwich, and we were planning on spending more time in the next couple months figuring out what we like more (and waiting for the right place to come up).

This place just came up last week and we really liked it. Any thoughts on the house (and/or the surrounding area)? Have a feeling it will move quickly so we are trying to decide whether to make an offer or not.

www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/119497289#/?channel=RES_BUY

It ticks the boxes and is not that expensive (compared to other properties that we've seen). We were told that there is a very good primary nearby (Balgowan) - any thoughts/experiences with the school?

Thanks!

@Twizbe
@BovineJuice
@Classicblunder
@Rrrob
@Clairelucyr
@HavfrueDenizKisi
@Therealrealitystar
@Kipperandarthur

Haha, my friends have literally just sold the house next door or next door but one.

Lovely road. Spitting distance to balgowen which is a very well regarded school. I have a friend who taught there and friends who's children go there.

Major drawback here is the parking. It is permitted but often busy.

The baby group I used to run is round the corner lol.

If you have a choice I'd take the Barnmead road house over this one for sure.

Sorry I don’t live in Beckenham so I don’t know about those exact secondaries, but I do know friends whose children went to Balgowan and that primary was amazing and has been for a long time, so I doubt it would suddenly go downhill.

As the poster above points out, parking could be an issue and street view shows the council parking attendant! However, if public transport and primary school is very close by that is more of an issue if you have friends or family over who are driving.

@Twizbe
Ha, that's funny. Hope they didn't sell because something bad come up in the area! I think it's right next door (if they literally just sold because I can see the neighboring house still listed on zoopla as "under offer"). I'm guessing you wouldn't know if they managed to sell above/below/at asking? ;)

If money was no object, then we would prefer the Barnmead road house too, but it's difficult to justify the (nearly) 50% higher price when the internal usable area (ignoring basement) is more like 20% larger. Plus the stamp duty starts biting really hard at those prices (would be over 68k vs 35k for the Hampden road).
Bernmead house has been on the market for a while, so it might be a sign that sellers would take a lower offer, but even if they knock off 100k (which I doubt), the difference is still very high. We might give the agent a shout, just in case.

@Adastraperaspera

Do you mean there is issue to park even your own car, or just for 2nd car / guests? Neither of us has family in UK, and we don't have a car yet (will get one when kids are on the way), so at least in the short run parking is not a consideration for us.

It looks a great house with good garden and not massively overlooked.

I hate the way they wide angle the shots and distort rooms!

Yes parking could be annoying but that’s often the case. This vs Barnmead is tricky. Barnmead much nicer and wider road but backing right onto railway line in fact the other house there shows the railway platform at the end of the garden which will be off putting for some. Then there’s the price difference which is significant.

Personally I think Barnmead house is great and good road but the price factor and overlooks the platform is putting people off. When you then compare to this lovely house you’ve just posted I can see why you would swerve here.

Get the viewing booked and speak with agent about Barnmead but I agree it’s not going to drop £100ks is it? I think you wouldn’t go wrong with this house it looks great and I think is a fair price.

I do also think it’s definitely worth doing what you suggest of walking around both areas of East Dulwich and Beckenham and the environs more as they are very different.

It’s hard when you like two areas and if you like them equally then that’s fine and it just comes down to a suitable house in a decent road.

If I had to pick for me it would be ED but I’m assuming houses are more expensive, smaller etc.

@Gabbiadini

I can’t believe that second one is a semi detached in Penge, has only one bathroom and is £1.1 million! Unless Penge has changed a lot since I was younger it was never the nicest area.

No one wanted to live in Penge when I was in London, has it really changed now?

I believe yes Penge has changed a lot but I completely understand what you mean from someone who knew Penge and the surrounding area 35 to 40 years ago!

I still know it now as have relatives in Bromley.

@friendlycat

I do also think it’s definitely worth doing what you suggest of walking around both areas of East Dulwich and Beckenham and the environs more as they are very different.

It’s hard when you like two areas and if you like them equally then that’s fine and it just comes down to a suitable house in a decent road.

If I had to pick for me it would be ED but I’m assuming houses are more expensive, smaller etc.

We've looked at places in ED, but similar places (with a garden where you can fit more than a table and 2 chairs) I would expect asking price of around 1.2-1.25m. There are a few odd ones for aroudn 1.1m, but there's usually a catch, and they're generally older looking instead of recently renovated.

Yes I agree East Dulwich is far more expensive for a smaller garden and much more densely packed roads. But then you see that and perhaps that’s your answer. You get more for your money nearer Beckenham.

There’s no right or wrong in location just what you would prefer house wise.

@MrsPelligrinoPetrichor - loads of places were really rough 20-30 years ago and have since become desirable - East Dulwich, Brixton, Peckham, Hackney. Peckham was Del Boy’s stomping ground and was also in the news for all the wrong reasons.

Many young families have been priced out of the area as the standard 3-bed terrace in ED is very expensive and they will rapidly outgrow it. Take this one at £900k but less than a 100sq foot with a tiny garden www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/60700923/?search_identifier=d0c96a63a22f612d7b623978c5325460

As a result you have an overspill into Forest Hill, Crystal Palace and now Penge and Sydenham.
The gentrification leads to an improvement in schools (sad but true) and increase in house prices. ED and Dulwich private schools are very easily accessible by train, bus, school coach and car (15-20min drive) so you don’t necessarily miss out on what these areas have to offer.

Good luck OP!

I only mention private schools as a pp mentioned it.

@MrFirstTimeBuyer my friends moved in and renovated their house thinking it would be very long term. Then the pandemic happened and like lots of people they're now leaving London. I know they got a good price for it. They also had more than one offer to pick from.

I feel like on your next visit here I should offer my services as a guide lol.

Penge has changed so much in recent years. My husband grew up round here and always thought of it as a dump. I moved here about 15 years ago and have fallen in love with the place. Especially since having our children.

[quote noworklifebalance]@MrsPelligrinoPetrichor - loads of places were really rough 20-30 years ago and have since become desirable - East Dulwich, Brixton, Peckham, Hackney. Peckham was Del Boy’s stomping ground and was also in the news for all the wrong reasons.

Many young families have been priced out of the area as the standard 3-bed terrace in ED is very expensive and they will rapidly outgrow it. Take this one at £900k but less than a 100sq foot with a tiny garden www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/60700923/?search_identifier=d0c96a63a22f612d7b623978c5325460

As a result you have an overspill into Forest Hill, Crystal Palace and now Penge and Sydenham.
The gentrification leads to an improvement in schools (sad but true) and increase in house prices. ED and Dulwich private schools are very easily accessible by train, bus, school coach and car (15-20min drive) so you don’t necessarily miss out on what these areas have to offer.

Good luck OP![/quote]
This was meant in reply to @Gabbiadini

All the secondaries in Beckenham are rated excellent with the exception of Eden Park and that's only because you can't get excellent on your first Ofsted.

But you are out of the catchment for Eden Park on Barnmead Road as it's a new school and heavily oversubscribed.

I'd move to Barnmead Road in a heartbeat 💗 The road surface is the responsibility of the residents though which is why it's like it is. 🙄

@RiverSkater

All the secondaries in Beckenham are rated excellent with the exception of Eden Park and that's only because you can't get excellent on your first Ofsted.

But you are out of the catchment for Eden Park on Barnmead Road as it's a new school and heavily oversubscribed.

I'd move to Barnmead Road in a heartbeat 💗 The road surface is the responsibility of the residents though which is why it's like it is. 🙄

Hampden road seems to be within the catchment area for Eden Park, so if that doesn't change in the next 10 years we should have options if we end up going for that one

East Dulwich and Beckenham are such different neighbourhoods, it's almost impossible to compare them.

The latest house you've linked in Beckenham is nice but looks very staged. And (bit of a minus) has the hob on the kitchen island. Also it's top heavy and mid terraced, which is an absolute pita if you want to do any work in the garden. I think a large family would feel over-crowded in that house and if you're not going to have a large family why bother with 5 bedrooms?

Agree the East Dulwich and Beckenham have completely different vibes. I know both areas very well. I vastly prefer East Dulwich.

Looks like a lovely house. I like Clock House (or Pengenham as we call it), it's really improved recently with a nice parade of shops (craft beer bar, pizza restaurant, coffee shop, etc) and nice housing.

I've lived in Penge 25 years and it has changed massively in that time. It used to be quite down at heel but the arrival of the Overground at Penge West was probably the starting gun. It's now got good schools, excellent bars, restaurants and cafes, to go with the excellent transport links and some lovely Victorian houses.

If planning kids in house, then need to be near good schools. If not planning kids in house, do not need 4-5 bedrooms.

Primary applications are at what, 3.5 years? Don't want to have to move in a hurry with toddler and second as baby or pg.

@memoirsofa

Agree the East Dulwich and Beckenham have completely different vibes. I know both areas very well. I vastly prefer East Dulwich.

I have lived in both areas and feel differently - horses for courses, I guess! I would be interested to hear why you prefer ED.

I really enjoyed ED in my 20’s and child-free and it was also great with toddlers but I found it increasingly claustrophobic- narrow, busy roads, small houses.
The Beckenham area bordering the high street, Penge, Sydenham feels so airy and open, much larger houses, parks, tree-lined streets and plenty of cafes, restaurants etc. I find the transport links much better, too.

Beckenham on the other side of the high is different - much more suburban but some huge sprawling houses.

@A580Hojas

East Dulwich and Beckenham are such different neighbourhoods, it's almost impossible to compare them.

The latest house you've linked in Beckenham is nice but looks very staged. And (bit of a minus) has the hob on the kitchen island. Also it's top heavy and mid terraced, which is an absolute pita if you want to do any work in the garden. I think a large family would feel over-crowded in that house and if you're not going to have a large family why bother with 5 bedrooms?

We're trying to find a place that we can stay in for the next 10 years even after we have kids.

Provisionally we're thinking about knocking down the wall on the top floor and turning it into one big master bedroom (similar to what they did in the neighboring house).

Then we'd be left with 3 bedrooms (master + kids + guestroom) + 1 office, which is exactly what we're looking for.

In terms of work in the garden - there is access from a back alley, which would come very handy for that I think.

@lordloveadog

If planning kids in house, then need to be near good schools. If not planning kids in house, do not need 4-5 bedrooms.

Primary applications are at what, 3.5 years? Don't want to have to move in a hurry with toddler and second as baby or pg.

Planning kids in very near future, so (at least) primary schools are now high on the list of priorities. Secondary schools are far away, but it's definitely a plus to have them (if not for us, then at least it makes the house more attractive to potential buyers if we need to move later).

Realistically this house is curently 4 bedrooms + small office, and if we combine the top floor into one big room (like they did here in the neighboring house - www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/60141227/) then we'd be down to 3 bedrooms + small office which seems perfect