Help me design a kitchen please I'm just staring at it!

[Minster2012]

Hi! Planning a renovation & planning permission in. As part of it we are opening out a very large area into a kitchen/diner/lounge area as this is where the daytime sun & the best gardens are. We are removing a lobby area which makes the current front door redundant.

Replacing the lobby with windows does mean that we are ending up with very little wall space for wall cupboards or big banks of full height larder cupboards, which is my ideal.

Picture with the bay window at the back is current layout, 2nd picture new layout, 3rd picture of aga we are keeping & I like the open shelf

Ignore the kitchen layout on the plan, ideally we don't want that bank of units coming out into the shaped room (as a split), but we do like the idea of the "window through breakfast bar" area which gives sight into other room (to watch kids if in there)

I'm struggling to come up with a kitchen plan that retains counter space, has enough cupboard space & keeps the appliances we need which are:

• large 4 door aga in the space where hob is noted on the plan, this has to stay there but it will be switched off in summer so we also need
• 4 ring induction hob
• a large single oven
• 60cm fridge we don't need bigger
• double sink or 1.5 sink
• dishwasher
• area for crockery (emma Bridgewater I used to have displayed on a plate rack)
• open shelf over aga as currently but might be able to put spice/oil cupboards down the side if those chimney walls aren't structural

Anyone have any ideas please? I just keep staring at it with total baby brain
Thanks!

So are you planning on having it just low level counter (no wall) between the kitchen and dining area and then the same between the kitchen and sitting area?

@PragmaticWench yes low level units making a breakfast bar area "framing" the sitting room bit (as that middle bit is structural) and actually ideally no other low level bit before the dining area but we might have to. We'd rather keep it open. It's either that or just having low level units down the wall along from the sink area down that outside wall instead

So what you're saying is that you want to keep the horizontal (as we look at the plan) peninsula, but lose the vertical one adjacent to the dining table?

Will you have a pantry separately?

I agree with you that I think it's a miss not to have tall cupboards. Do you have to have the new doorway for the kitchen to the left (hall?)? Or could you brick up on of the windows at the bottom given it will be more open and presumably lighter?

Or can the Aga move under the windows and the bottom of the plan? Otherwise you're just not giving yourselves any walls to have cupboards against.

Two dishwashers!
Assuming that this is a family home, you will not regret!
Also, put the microwave where the children and teens can safely access it.

@MaggieFS yes ideally no penninsula in front of the dining table just the island, but I think we might need it for the cupboard space. On the door, we currently have the lobby door & it makes the front door totally redundant. That's the south side where the sink is so that gets the morning sun which we are keen to retain.
I'm not sure where else we could put it? Unfortunately the Aga cannot move as it's in a large structural chimney

@CatherinedeBourgh unfortunately not. Currently have a pantry & like it but seemingly the only place for it to be is where the lobby is and that's the south side so I'm reluctant to take out those windows & replace with a pantry which will then block the light. However, I'm willing to see! Or see other options for it cos I do like the pantry!

@RollerCoasterProteinSpill I don't think there's space for 2 dishwashers! We manage atm with one but yes we are a house of DS (3.5) then a baby due may & 2 large dogs!

Do you need to have a window instead of the entrance door in the original floor plan? If you blocked that up you could have a high cupboard built in that space. Either as a pantry cupboard or breakfast cupboard with toaster/microwave plus storage?

@PragmaticWench no I guess we don't need to have a window there, it's just preferable as that's literally the morning sun ☀️ which then shines onto the table (we currently have a door with glazing in it so it would actually would be letting less light in than we currently have) but I'm thinking it might be a good solution. It might look a bit weird from the outside though but def a good idea if we don't mind losing the sun. (I might block the door & the glazing above it with cardboard & see what a difference it makes).

Thank you keep 'me coming! It's particularly awkward

Sorry I tagged the wrong person, that was in response to @givememarmite

@Minster2012 that's a good idea to block up the door and see how light it still is. You'll have two windows in the kitchen area and three on that side in the dining area so hopefully should be nice and light still

from what I can see of the rest of the house, it looks like you don't have much kitchen for your space. So i'd do something like this picture

• put a full height wall between kitchen and living room, and use that for your proper fridge & lots of food storage. you lose the bar stools there but gain by having two separate spaces which can have different music / radio / conversations etc.

• put the sink (s) and dishwasher (w) on the lower wall, and a big dresser for crockery (D) just next door in the dining room.

• turn the island around and you'll get more storage in it, plus space for some bar stools at the island. Put the oven (o) and induction hob and microwave in the island, not too far from the Aga.

here's the image

Definitely a pantry cuts out half the cupboards. On the island i put a dropped shelf on one side we can use and chairs fit under.

Do you have the rest of the floor plan? Can't work out where all the doors go.
Could something like this work with a big corner pantry cupboard and a link under the window

@Calmdown14 please see attached, we are looking to add another "block" in to give a back door (currently has a million doors & none of them flow) utility room & boot room and make the front door not redundant but this means moving the internal door.

I was trying to find pictures of corner pantry units earlier actually

@parietal yes that's just it, the kitchen is small for the size of the house. We wanted to open it all out to enable us to use the rooms as not necessarily living room /dining bit but more family room & having had an open plan kitchen before we are reluctant to put a full height wall there as we wouldn't be able to see DC in that room (3.5 & due may). There is a chimney in that end room which needs to be retained and we were going to put a log burner in there so we thought the breakfast bar bit there with it all open was a nice way to see through & still not make the burner look ridiculous 😂

argh it's hard
Maybe even the kitchen in the back

Attached are more pictures to try demonstrate where the best garden is too hence why our table is kept in the weird shaped bit it looks out on 3 sides over the best bit

I think having the whole of your kitchen - dining - garden room as one big open plan space could easily be too big and cold and echoy.

I get the point of wanting to see the kids, but in a few years time, you'll want a space that is separate from them. And if you have a wall where I drew it, you can put a stair gate across to keep the kids in the dining room and away from the log burner when you are cooking. I wouldn't want a toddler at the other end of a big space even if I could see them.

Gosh it is a complicated layout!
It's the door into the kitchen that prevents the high level run you need.
Is there any potential to move this further down? Perhaps a larger double door where it comes into the living space so it feels more appropriately proportioned?
Must be lovely and light but can see how you are struggling

I agree with parietal’s plan but I would keep the “window” through to the living area - you’ll want to be able to see through that way and keep an eye on the DC. You can easily block up the “window” with a stud wall when the DC are older if you want.

Baby gate idea works either way ie whether you have low cabinets or full height cabinets there.

The unit behind the kitchen door could be full height though. In fact could you knock through to the hallway cupboard that backs onto it, and make that a deep (walk in?) larder?

Going back to parietal’s plan, if you turn the dining table you could make the island even larger.

Are you planning to have cupboards or drawers? Drawers are so much more space efficient, you don’t need nearly as many units.

@parietal thank you, I'm def not sure about the full height there as we loved our old open plan kitchen & can still put baby gate through to the living bit

@Calmdown14 it's horrendously complicated 😩could you do a drawing where you think the door? Our concern with further down towards the living is that you then have a long way to walk to the kitchen door from the front door with shopping, which we currently have a corridor making it a maze to get into the kitchen (which is why they put the lobby & thus the front door never gets used)

@minipie I'm happy with drawers, and yes there may be the potential to use that cupboard for the kitchen instead. I need to find out if that's a structural bit or not I guess, thank you

I was going to suggest something like @parietal's plan. Unless you put tall units along that wall you have no other wall they can go on - unless you put them between the kitchen and dining area which would be worse.

I think you could be a bit limited for storage as otherwise there isn't really even anywhere for wall units. Be sure to have lots of pan drawers or you'll be forever crouching and bending to get into the backs of cupboards!

Sorry I can't download the plan to edit for some reason but I mean a larger door where the door is into the garden room making that the main access point. I'd scrap the breakfast bar and investigate opening the hall cupboard into the kitchen as suggested up thread
You'd then have an L shape with a bank of units next to the Aga and could have a huge island with seating running length ways as someone drew above.
Losing the door is a pain if you have to walk round a breakfast bar but if you ditch it then you'd cut straight in between your units and island so it wouldn't be much different and the fridge and larder cupboards would be together so no running round kitchen to put things in strange low down cupboards

Another voice saying you need some wall units! One idea that I really liked was on Artichoke's website (a local kitchen co I've been stalking). They've used a glazed cabinet to divide a sitting room from the kitchen, so in effect the rooms are open plan but separated. The glazed unit provides useful storage and structure to the kitchen but the two rooms are still connected (take a look at the photos... it's hard to describe!)

www.artichoke-ltd.com/projects/georgian-family-kitchen/

Could you put the kitchen in the garden room area? Seeing as you already have a separate lounge.

You have loads of doors, a friend who has done a similar type extension has one door for their kitchen/living/dining and it works fine.