Investing in rental property

[Fashionesta]

I'm just curious how much you would/have invested in a rental property.

I rent in a very expensive area with little on the market. I am aware that I pay around £150 per month under market rate. I have lovely neighbours, a good size garden and close to good school for DD.

I rent through an agency who are supportive but the LL is a bit of a nightmare about getting stuff done. Generally the stuff is nothing that he legally needs to do but it's a nice house and it is a shame he refuses to invest in it. It's stuff like minor mould issue in kitchen, wood around porch rotting, old shed in the garden that is unusable and should be replaced, some doors not shutting properly and generally needs a lick of paint.

I worked out that even if over a year I spent £1000 on it eg paint, getting someone in to remove shed and dispose etc, it would be monthly what I would be paying if I moved even if I could find something!

Problem is there is never a guarantee with rent. I could be here for another ten years or he could suddenly decide to sell next year.

To not drip feed LL is happy for me to do what I want within property within reason.

Just wonder what other people who rent do. Do you invest money in it?

I guess if you want to stay somewhere and make it a home you will have to invest money in it whether you own it or not. I don't think that's unreasonable. I get that you could be chucked out at any time but that's the perils of renting. It's your choice whether you invest or not but I guess you should be keeping the house in a good condition anyway

Thanks. Yes obviously I maintain the house and garden but I've heard of people who rent putting in new floors etc which seems a big expense for a house you don't own.

Well I would agree - I certainly wouldn't do that - seems nuts!

It’s tricky OP, as really, I would say keep and save that money and let it be the start of your deposit for your own place. I bought 2.5 years ago after years of thinking I would never own property and seeing prices rise faster than I could save a deposit, so I do ge it. But from this position, I wish I had saved more so I could do more things to this house that will make me money!

However, having been in your shoes, I get it. When it feels like you will never own, you want to live somewhere nice. And some things are relatively inexpensive for the joy they give - new paint etc vs an expensive new kitchen!

If it was me, I’d probably do the smaller things, but I would try and use my willingness to do so to negotiate a longer lease and/or have the Landlord pay half. So say you offer to paint and go halves. Your LL is getting a half price deal on it, plus you are offering to do all the Admin organising and put up with the work going on whilst living there. That’s a pretty good deal for him. Ditto with the shed.

If you can secure a longer lease and half the price for the improvements, that’s a pretty good deal for you too.

I'm a landlord and would expect to sort out the mould issue and doors not shutting myself, as the property needs to be fit for purpose

For cosmetic changes, I allow my tenants free range with decor as long as it is put back to neutral at the end of the tenancy if it's too wild!

I have some tenants do nothing, some just paint and wallpaper, a couple have changing flooring to suit them better (carpet to laminate or vice versa) and 2 have changed tiles as although they were perfectly fine, they didn't like the style/colour

I am aware that although it's my house, it's their home and they should feel comfortable and happy there. Some are on 10+ years in the property so have maybe spent a few hundred over that period

HTH

If there are small jobs, like painting that I’ve wanted to do, I do them (with permission) at the beginning of the tenancy. That way I can decide if I can justify the cost over the period left on the lease. If I stay longer, then I enjoy the benefit for longer and it’s a bonus. I’ve never had to put any work back to the original condition as it’s always been an improvement on what i started with.

However, this has backfired once. I rented a house that was also on the market for sale but there was no interest. I suspect because each room was a different (and garish colour) with some awful carpets so it looked like it needed more work than it did. The carpets were so dire in two rooms, they needed replacing and I agreed to pay the difference between new carpet and LVT as this suits me better. Did this & repainted pretty much the whole house at beginning of the 1st year - all fine. Renewed for another year.

A month into the new lease LL comes to fix an appliance and sees the house looks great with new floors, new paint and my stuff in it. Decides to take advantage of the rising market (and free house staging) so puts it back on the market. It sold pretty quickly.

I know I could have stayed the year, but who wants to live where they aren’t wanted? However, I managed to negotiate: immediate return of my deposit so I could pay the next deposit; reduced rent in return for making the house available for viewings during covid; and he also paid for removals. (He really wanted to sell )

So I’d say do it, but there are risks, particularly if the landlord has expressed an interest in selling.

No advice but we are in exactly the same position in a really badly maintained rental property. I don't think the landlord would offer to pay for materials if we did the work and it's frustrating knowing we could be kicked out after the yearly tenancy is up or they could raise the rent. We have a carpet in the disgusting bathroom with no ventilation at all, cracked tiles, actual holes in the wall in the living room etc. So difficult to know whether to try and make a place homey or not :(

@ParkingFeud - that's awful!

As a LL I would expect to sort those things. Do you rent direct or through an agency and what have they said?

@jackstini it's directly unfortunately. Kitchen cupboards are hanging off their hinges. Everything that has ever had to be fixed has been a cheap bodge. It's such a shame. Going by old rightmove photos the carpets have been here a very very long time too which is especially gross for the bathroom one! The sink also has a crack in it. But with the rental market as it is in England we don't dare complain as we don't want to have to move again with all the associated costs and not knowing if next house could be worse.

The time to get things sorted with the landlord is before you move in .or as soon as you are aware of the issue. I have removed wallpaper and changed the colour of a blind for a tenant. And I'm fine with them hanging things on walls. I wouldn't be happy with permanent changes like flooring, but then I tend to renovate then let, so the properties are in excellent condition when the tenant takes possession. If the paint needed renewing, for example and the tenant was happy to do it, then I'd pay for materials (I have one tenant who has been in one house for eight years so he has done a bit of repair work here and there). I've also had tenants who promise to maintain the garden or what have you only to find they didn't do a thing.
It is so unfortunate that there are landlords who allow their properties to become shabby and barely habitable. I would not be able to rent a place that I wouldn't be happy for my daughter to live in. That's my standard. I respect my tenants and I expect them to treat the property with care.
Whatever you do, get your landlords permission in writing. You don't want him to verbally agree to you removing the shed, then once you move out he accuse you of getting rid of it without asking and demanding compensation!

As long as you can cope with him selling up after you’ve done it then go for it. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to make your home a bit nicer to live in!

Think about why your landlord is so unresponsive.

My guess is that he allows the rent to be below market because you are a good undemanding tenant. The real problem in expensive areas is not the cost of work, but finding good tradesmen to do it. He is probably holding onto the property because he has no immediate need for the capital but enjoys the regular income. However does not want the work involved in overseeing maintenance. He may have plans to sell when you leave. (I am in the process of disinvesting and will sell one property as soon as the tenant gives notice. She has been there four years and is no trouble, so I am happy to wait, as the income I earn is more than I would earn from savings. I never put her rent up and would be open to discussing any improvements she wanted, especially ones which would add to the overall value of the property.)

Depending on the terms of any mortgage he has and whether you want it, I might try to negotiate a two year lease with you undertaking to carry out some renovation and him making a contribution to things that would help the value of the property. You would need to agree work standards etc. It might not work, but if he is like many amateur landlords he may well be interested in having the work done as long as you organise it. Approach him in a way that allows for him to say no and leaves details to future negotiation.

I've been in a Housing Association House for 2 years.
I refuse to invest anything into the place because it's a hole that's barely suitable for habitation.

Since moving here theres been mold, rot, plaster falling from internal walls, masonry falling from external walls that almost killed someone, a side external wall that almost collapsed.completely, roof leaks, windows damaged and bowed causing gaps and draughts around them all. Asbestos. Collapsing ceiling. A hole in the wall of one bedroom that was fixed by stuffing newspaper into it, slotting a bit of wood, filling the crack and painting over it... The wood fell out...
I've reported and reported and reported. I've even complained to the Ombudsman and been awarded £200 compensation... Still the repairs go undone.

So basically, after they've shown so little.csre, why should I show any to the property when I don't own it and will leave as soon as possible?
If I loved it here though? And they showed some sign they gave a shit? I'd have a different attitude. Still wouldn't invest tons in to a property I dont own as you could spend £1000s in march, be evicted in April.

I've been a LL not through choice but I let a place out to work elsewhere. I had a heavy mortgage and I did anything that had to be done legally for my tenants but not much more because I knew I was going to sell the property at the end and no investing in it was going to improve the price to make it worth disrupting anything for it.
I am now renting and just live as it is with its wonderful 89's kitchen. I don't know what the general consensus on renting is but I personally would never give a LL an improved property unless it was somewhere I knew I would be able to stay in for a long time without worry such as a government property.
Otherwise you could do it up and be chucked out within the year leaving the LL better off and you out of pocket.

I am a LL and have 6 houses. I do work on properties if a house needs work.but also try to do a few jobs that don't need doing but will upgrade property. Last year 2 houses had new kitchens, 1 a new boiler and I got decking put into 1 garden and a new fence. The decking did not need doing and I can't claim back off tax but I want to keep all houses in good order to hold their value. I can't understand LL who refuse to keep their houses on a good state of repair as most maintenance jobs can be written off against tax and it does not make sense to allow your properties to fall into disrepair. I am in process of buying another property. Before I can let it I will upgrade it with a new fireplace and paint throughout, became much harder to do once a tenant is in. I will put in new kitchen in the following tax year. I have some tenant who have been in my properly for 8 and 9 years. They have brought their children up there. I am picky about my tenants but once in I will not be selling and I allow them some choice eg. If tiling to pick tiles within reason.

I see both sides of the equation because I have rented out a property which frankly the tenants just always seem to ruin, it’s like they can’t help themselves it’s it’s really odd.
But then when I rented properties without fail every single time I’ve been handed a bill for things that when my tenants have done exactly the same I’ve just sucked it up and thought well that’s part of what you get when you rent out a house.

I think I need to push back a bit more next time

@ParkingFeud sorry to hear that

The crappy landlords that give the rest of us a bad name do my head in!

@jackstini thanks for being a good LL. I rent through an agency who are on my side in terms of the property needs some maintenance but also say they can't physically force the landlord which I do understand. They've sent him several emails to which he has not responded. It is so hard to find a property here I'm afraid if I push too hard he'll get another tenant :(

@caringcarer totally agree. Lovely house in lovely area where property is really expensive. I don't understand why you would let stuff just rot away for the sake of a few £100 of maintenance.

Thanks to everyone who has responded. I may see if agency can find out if they have any plans in terms of selling/long term letting. It annoys me as I think I'm a really good tenant who always look after the property, I even pay for a gardener to ensure garden is maintained. Argh.

We rent through an agency and get a very good monthly payment for the area, it has been the same since we moved in 3 yeara ago even though to rent the same around here now would be about a couple of hundred more a month.

Obviously theres never a definite guarantee with renting, but they checked we wanted long term let when we moved in, and know the previous tenants were here for 7 years.

They have always been pretty good at getting repairs done, and so because of this and the good rate we get, I'm more than happy to do some 'improvements' in the house, not to mention the fact that it is our home, and I enjoy keeping it looking nice.If we do ever buy it won't be for afew years til we have a higher income when I go back to work full time.

Wouldn't ever do something huge like a new kitchen or bathroom but we have redecorated, changed the flooring in various rooms and upgraded minor fixtures and fittings such as the bathroom cabinet etc.We have sought permission for the floors, but not the smaller things.