Advice on buying a house that is a total ruin?

[Latinorapida]

Hi wondering if anyone can help,

Considering buying a Victorian house which is in a complete state with a view of renovating it.

When I say complete state I mean completely unliveable and the entire place would have to be gutted. There’s also fire damage (kitchen started in the fire but from what I saw its only caused cosmetic damage) Id like to do a kitchen extension and go up into the eaves to make it 3 bedroom (i know this is possible as I’ve viewed like for like houses on the same road which are in good condition and have done this which have gone for a lot more).

Could someone advise me on where to start? Of course it would need a surveyors report and a structural engineer but this cost money of course so would only do that after/if i made an offer. I think I should go back for another viewing with a builder?

We used to have a trusted builder my father had worked with a lot and knew well but they fell out. Looking to ask relatives and friends if they can recommend a builder who could come and view the place again with me and , tell me whether I shouldn’t touch the place with a barge pole or if it is safe to pursue and if so, how much id be looking at.

The place can only be cash bought, there was a fire, Im not sure if that’s why I bank won’t touch it or if it’s just to do with the fact that the place is in a state?

Can anyone with experience like offer some advice on how to go about this? Would bringing a builder in be the first step?

Ive never done this before but it is our only option really of being able to afford a house in this area and if it’s feasible I’d love to go ahead.

Thank you for reading!

Banks don’t lend on uninhabitable houses as it’s difficult to quantify value.

If they do agree to mortgage it, the lender will put in place retentions (withhold part of the mortgage) until you have fixed certain things.

The other issue is that good builders have a 6-9 month waiting list for big projects at the moment, and that isn’t really easing up at all. So finding a friendly builder to help you through the process will be difficult.

How will you fund the build and is that really what you want to commit to?

It costs way more than you think. We estimated an amount and ended up spending near double once we had also bought furniture etc and all the add ons during the build

And ours was livable to start.

It’s most likely unmortgageable because banks don’t like properties that can’t be lived in - a functional kitchen and bathroom are usually a must.

It’s worth getting a builder in to look, but make sure you have a much bigger budget and much more time then they estimate. I’m currently renovating my house and it’s nowhere near as big of a job as this sounds but everything costs more and takes longer then anticipated.

If you’ve never done this sort of work before, you should think long and hard about it before committing yourself. It might be a better idea to find somewhere that is at least liveable, and has minimal structural damage.

I have done this more than once! However, the cost of materials and shortage of builders and labour would make me think twice at the moment... unless the house was a ridiculous bargain. Very hard to budget as who knows if the whole roof/structural works are required, but even without those I doubt you will get change from 200-250K. This is excluding extensions, lofts etc. and could be a lot more.

If you have the money to sink into a complete renovation and extension (75k?+) plus cash to buy outright, could you not use that as a deposit on a habitable house?? Or is it being sold for next to nothing?

Ive never done this before but it is our only option really of being able to afford a house in this area and if it’s feasible I’d love to go ahead

This jumped out at me. Are you being realistic about the costs? Where will you get the funds to do the work?
I'm not sure fully renovating an unlivable fire damaged building, adding a kitchen extension and loft conversion (new roof?), new kitchen (& bathroom(s?) would be much cheaper than buying a "done" version - and the second option would be mortgageable.

We bought a tired, scruffy but definitely livable 3 bed Edwardian semi.
New roof, new windows, new boiler, stealing some space and making an upstairs shower room, repointing, new radiators throughout, flooring, every room needs completely stripping back and either plastering or weekends of filling sanding lining etc... we're now planning a small side return kitchen extension and new kitchen. Then the downstairs bathroom and the patio need replacing, and the cracked concrete front garden needs digging up, new fence/wall, new path to front door... honestly if I add it all up we'll have spent close to £150k by the time it's all finished, as the cost of building work just keeps increasing.

Also - where will you live in the meantime? There are long lead times for materials & builders are busy, the builders I'm speaking to now are talking about Summer/Autumn 2022 for our job & we've already got planning permission, architects drawings etc in place.
Do you have somewhere else / can you afford to rent somewhere else for the duration of getting planning, architect's drawings, engaging a builder and completing the works (which in this climate could easily be 12-18 months)

There's a house here on the seafront that is literally a shell/ruins. Everyone who has bought it has never been able to get it to a liveable state. They get bits and bobs done, but it's still just a shell. So there's a stumbling block somewhere, either with planning or the cost. I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.

It sounds like your calculations are probably off by an order of magnitude if you're saying that the house plus what is needed to be done to it would make it the only house you could afford in the area. Is the place even structurally sound? You would have to be all cash for everything, it might be uninhabitable for years (wait times for builders), new kitchens plus bathrooms plus floors plus electrics plus plastering at the very least.

This does not sound like a viable option for a first-timer with no expertise or free labour in the family. Sorry.

How would you fund the works?

I would not offer anything until I knew how much it would cost to a) make it habitable and b) how much to do what you want. Only when you know that will you know of you can actually afford to do it. .

Can you afford the works. With the current rapidly rising costs of materials is say 100k would be a conservative estimate

I'm confused why you have enough cash to buy an uninhabitable place outright but not enough of a deposit to get a mortgage on a habitable house? That doesn't add up? Have you spoken to a mortgage broker about your circumstances, if issues with low income or self employment they can assist getting you a deal.

It's cash only as it's not mortgageable without a working kitchen & bathroom. That's how a house is classed as habitable & can get mortgages.

If you can live elsewhere of course it's possible (staging mortgages based on stages in the build) but work on the basis of starting work in a years time at the very least as we are waiting on planning & can't get a builder until autumn 2022 & you haven't bought it yet which all takes time. Work out roughly £2k per square metre and with the cost of materials atm & unforeseen costs you wouldn't be far off, which includes work on the existing house & then new extension. Obviously hope for less bit it's a very good ball park atm.

We've bought a renovation project but one that's a solid house we can live in til the boiler gets ripped out.

Ive never done this before but it is our only option really of being able to afford a house in this area and if it’s feasible I’d love to go ahead

From what you describe I'd guess you'll need to spend at least £200k - are habitable houses in your chosen area really more than £200k over your house buying budget?

@Constance1 yep!

Find out the cost of a full structural report.
You say the damage is only cosmetic, but you may well find out that joists have been damaged enough to need replacing (never mind the costs of tearing down the ceilings below and being replaced, plus other hidden damage).
If you can't afford to take that cost on the chin (and then look elsewhere for another property), don't do it.

Don't underestimate the vast costs of this sort of renovation. Cost it properly: rewiring, plumbing, damp proofing, plastering, possible replacement of beams if fire damage has weakened them, new windows, kitchen and bathroom then all the cosmetic stuff on top: flooring, decor etc. All this while paying rent elsewhere and utilities in two places, or living in squalor and stress wondering how many funerals the builders can claim to go to when they don't turn up as promised yet again.

Also how many poorly relatives they have to drop everything to visit in hospital @hivemindneeded.

@whataboutbob

Also how many poorly relatives they have to drop everything to visit in hospital *@hivemindneeded*.

Exactly. The head count of wives with brain cancer gets ridiculous after three conversions.

My idea of hell OP and also my idea of a total money pit. But if you cost it really carefully then add 25% contingency and still come out with a cheaper house than you could otherwise afford, then you have a deal.

is this a sale price or guide price at auction? If it's the latter then it's likely to go significantly in excess if, as you say, the fully done versions are more than 200k more expensive

OP, you may find my dad's blog about the complete renovation of their Victorian house interesting and/or useful - houseintheenchantedforest.blogspot.com/2010/08/its-all-in-name.html?m=1

If you don't have lots of a. Money and b. Time. my advice would be, walk away.

I know @hivemindneeded, my mum got scammed in the 80s by a builder who said his wife was dying of cancer and disappeared with £500 after doing a few days’ incompetent work. A plumber dropped out in the middle of fitting a shower and lied to me about having finished the job ( it was in a rental property in another town and he thought I wouldn’t check) then said his mother was in hospital. He still asked for full payment. Maybe she was, but by then sadly I wasn’t giving anyone the benefit of the doubt. And breathe....