Survey results - renegotiation

[redpickle]

I hope someone can advise. We've had our survey back on our potential purchase and there are a number of significant issues on the 'urgent' list. If we do decide to go ahead with the purchase, we will want to renegotiate what we are willing to pay for the property in light of this. At this point, do we go via our solicitor to do this or back to the agent? Also, are they likely to ask for proof of these issues? I'm not prepared to send the full survey but will they expect screenshots of the key issues? There are some big things on there relating to most things, roof, electrics, boiler etc. I've always bought newish houses and this one is 50ish years old so never encountered this issue. Any help/tips appreciated!

Via agent

It's likely they will say that the problems are as expected for that age of property and already reflected in the price

Some of that you could have anticipated on viewing- an old boiler is pretty obvious. The electrics are unlikely to be ‘urgent’ if someone is living there, is there an electrical safety certificate? Again something you could anticipate and reflect in your offer if you knew it hadn’t been updated in recent history.

Don’t be surprised if they tell you to jog on for most of it. Roof in my eyes is different as it’s not apparent to a lay person. If it’s relatively minor again they may just refuse. Beware if you are in a hot property area pushing too hard.

The boiler really is a non issue as a boiler can pack in at any time.

Is the electrics just the standard surveyor speak of "you need to get the electrics tested?"

Depends what the survey says about the roof really.

It's so difficult with surveys these days, especially if you have never bought an older property, as the surveyor highlights literally anything and everything without actually often being that specific. Have you actually spoken with the surveyor in person to fully understand the content of your survey?

I'm waiting on a survey report as we speak and me and dp have agreed that the roof would be the dealbreaker, fully expecting it to flag the boiler and electrics and potentially asbestos in the garage, it's an old house last renovated in the 70's so I'm sure there will be tons on things that need investigating further. We can't afford a new roof though so that would be too much for us on top of everything else.

Thank you. The issue with electrics is that it doesn't meet modern safety standards. Like you say, most of these things we expected but in addition to the roof, possibly pushes us to seek a reduction.
The roof has been insulated with spray foam, which most lenders won't mortgage on due to fire risk, hidden damp. We've sought advice from a friend in the know and he said quite often it can't be removed and the whole roof needs replacing and in this case that would cost around £30k

Depends on the value. Agree boiler or windows you can see at the viewing and unless it’s tens of thousands I wouldn’t renegotiate as a lot of it is the price of home ownership, We had £5k of urgent things on our survey and possible rewiring (which has now come to fruition), it wasn’t worth it.

That’s major and I would say totally reasonable. I’d focus on that and probably let the ‘could have guessed on viewing’ stuff go as the price of moving.

I’d get a few quotes on the roof to make sure £30k is today’s price. Materials are through the roof..

I’d get evidence of the costs of work in writing before broaching the renegotiation with the EA. Some sellers totally dig in on any renegotiation so I’d want my ducks in a row before open the conversation.

Modern safety standards doesn’t necessarily mean electrics need replacing.

Electrics are a standard surveyor clause. They don't meet current standards. Unless they were done in the last year or so no house in the country will meet currents standards. You should not ask for a discount based on this.

Roof I wouldn't touch a spray insulation roof with a bargepole. Needs a new roof or pull out.

Why won’t you let them see the full survey?

If a buyer said this to me I would say “please show me the full survey including the valuation”. If your surveyor has okayed the valuation then tough basically. Most people will do a loft conversion and that involves a new roof anyway.

The only time I tried to get 10’s of thousands off an agreed price I sent them the entire survey with the valuation which was in line with my revised offer.

Boiler/electrics/damp (unless extremely severe) would all just make you look like an inexperienced buyer who I would be worried about during conveyancing frankly.

Equally you never know their circumstances and some people are desperate enough that they will reduce not to lose a buyer. But it’s not very common if you’re asking for 5 figure sums.

The roof is the only real issue there IMO. You can ask for a reduction but they're not obliged to give you one. The boiler you could've seen at viewing, and the electrics on anything that's not a new build will rarely meet the latest safety standards, as they change so often.
Just make sure you're very specific when you speak to the agent, and make it clear it's about the roof. If you throw in lots of other issues they are less likely to take you seriously.

I'm not going to hand over the full survey that I've paid over £1k for so they can just sell it to their next buyer. Happy to share sections but not the whole thing.

Why would they sell it to their next buyer?!

Why would a buyer want some random survey from who knows where?

Who would organise this information swap and what would be their motivation??

Surely the seller would want a buyer whose surveyor didn’t find foam in the roof etc etc.

You feel there is one solution: a new roof. The buyers have lived there happily with a foam roof and no problems. They might decide to take the house off the market and simply live there, or put on a new roof themselves and up the price by 50k as it has a new asset on readvertising, or offer to the next highest bidder who hopefully just gets a valuation, or explain how you can get foam removed at a fraction of the new roofing cost. They could do so many things.

If you honestly want the outcome of 30k off then handing over a survey that confirms that would be the most likely way to get it as the estate agent will weigh in and try to reason with them.

Presenting a section of a survey out of further context certainly wouldn’t sway most people as it does not illustrate the overall view of the property’s value.

OP - they can’t sell the survey to the next buyer so don’t let that be a consideration.

The surveyor’s insurance only covers the person named on the survey and the surveyor would not be able to speak to the next buyer without assignment.

Sometimes surveys can be sold on, but they would need your permission to do so.

Personally though I would not share the full survey as you risk them interpreting the survey more favourably than you have, and using it against you in negotiations. Relevant excerpts only.

@redpickle

I'm not going to hand over the full survey that I've paid over £1k for so they can just sell it to their next buyer. Happy to share sections but not the whole thing.

Your survey may have conditions on it. Ours had- we were not allowed to let anyone see it without the surveyor's permission. People tend not to know this. HAs tend to demand to see surveys. The correct polite response to that request is, 'if you or your buyers with to see a survey, I'm afraid you will have to commission one'. The impolite response I think you can guess. If there is something serious, like the foam in the roof, then you might ask the surveyor for permission to quote just that part as evidence. Ours was happy for us to do that on some specific matters.

Erm - what Gribbit said!!

Why not hand over the survey? If it's as bad as you make it sounds, it'll only go in your favour, right?
The more you post, the more inexperienced you sound. Which is fine in itself, as we've all been inexperienced buyers once, but you need to get your ducks in a row and arm yourself with a sensible argument, backed up with full facts, before you go in for any negotiation.

A quick bit of research on Which shows that spray foam insulation isn't necessarily the awful thing it's made out to be, if it's been done properly - and if you do want it out, it can cost around £1k to remove and dispose of properly. And if that's what I've found in a two minute search then your vendors, who have most likely lived with it with no issues, will probably quote similar info back at you.

What you need to decide is where your red lines are. Are you prepared to pull out? How much of a discount are you prepared to proceed with? What will your response be when they say the foam hasn't been an issue for them?
And perhaps most importantly, what has your mortgage lender said about the spray foam? If they're happy to go ahead then that somewhat undermines your argument...