Talk to me about guttering

[BlackAlys]

I'm trying to source guttering for my renovation.

Ideally, black cast iron would be fantastic but the budget is definitely too tight for that.

Next best thing, I've read somewhere, is cast aluminium - it looks just as good but is meant to be cheaper. Does anyone have this?

Only last night I realised that you can have black PVC guttering - does anyone have this and how does it look to you? Are you pleased with it? What about cost?

Anything you can tell me will help. Want to learn a bit more about this before I start ordering.

Thank you.

You can also get plastic 'cast iron effect' guttering - the FloPlast product looks pretty realistic (available at Screwfix + many other places).

It's more expensive than standard black plastic, but much cheaper than cast iron or aluminium.

@BlackAlys I'd urge you to think twice about any king of plastic. We have galvanized steel by roofart. They also do black.

[quote Daftasabroom]@BlackAlys I'd urge you to think twice about any king of plastic. We have galvanized steel by roofart. They also do black.[/quote]
Thanks @Daftasabroom .

Could you tell me why?

We don't need anymore plastic on the planet generally but PVC has a high chlorine content along with other additives that make it difficult to recycle.

@Daftasabroom

We don't need anymore plastic on the planet generally but PVC has a high chlorine content along with other additives that make it difficult to recycle.

Seeing as you have your wonderful eco-friendly 'galvanised steel' gutters on your property, I trust you have also replaced every single plastic waste pipe, trap, pan connector, soil pipe, underground pipe, gulley, and chamber base also?

No? Why not?

Maybe it's because you don't like your house full of raw sewage, and alternatives do not exist.

Plus it's far easier to be a hypocritical virtue signalling numpty, with little knowledge, than having to deal with it.

I'd definitely get plastic. Yes it can't be recycled, but it will also not degrade/corrode/need maintenance- fit and forget.

Appropriate use of plastic is a good thing for society.

@MistyMorningSong that's uncalled for; as and when we upgrade or modify anything we certainly do look for the most sustainable solution but we wouldn't rip something out just for the sake of it.

Aluminium's a good choice. You could look at extruded guttering in an ogre profile if you want something more traditional. It can be extruded to any length so you can have it along a whole run. You can also get bracket-less which does away the need for a naff bracket every 600-1000mm. You might be able to use cast downpipes \ hopper with it too.

I used aluminiumsuperstore.co.uk/ on a garden room recently and they were super. There are many online retailers though!

@FurierTransform PVC is degraded by sunlight and last 10 to 20 years. Plastics can be great but aren't always the best solution.

[quote Daftasabroom]@MistyMorningSong that's uncalled for; as and when we upgrade or modify anything we certainly do look for the most sustainable solution but we wouldn't rip something out just for the sake of it.[/quote]
Fair enough.

Just pointing out as another poster suggested, that there are irresponsible uses of plastic (bags / bottles / packaging / toys / xmas decorations / a million & one pieces of assorted crap from China!), and there are responsible uses of it, such as plastic piping for infrastructure & construction.

You sounded as though you were picking on the wrong type based on your first 2 posts on this thread, and appeared to be just congratulating yourself for not using plastic, rather than helping the OP.

Lets face it, unless you live off-grid in a hut, then what do you think your gas, water, electric, broadband services are supplied by - woven wicker pipes or something?

There is nothing environmentally unsafe about plastic rainwater products compared to 99% of pointless consumer plastic goods (which should be legitimately called out).

Also, they are easily recycled, and more & more of this is being done. The reason I know is because I used to work for a plastic pipe manufacturer, and have stood in front of a machine in the factory, while it ground down old pipe & fittings, and made it into new ones.

Thanks everyone.

Like most of us, this comes down to cost and, thanks to Brexit and this pandemic, what was a dream build factoring everything we'd hoped for - cast iron guttering, automatic roof widows, rain water harvesting, copper bath, bespoke kitchen, limestone flooring/flagstones, solar panels and an air source heat pump and UFH etc etc etc has quite literally turned into a bit of a cost nightmare. We've just forked out £28k for joists and trusses that would have cost us less that £15k in 2019. Had we known it was going to be this bad, then I may have not pursued this.

So.

Plastic guttering will be our choice if the figures fit. Plastic bath, no air source heat pump (I know there's an RHI, but we honestly don't have the capital to pay for it to start with), tiles and laminate and a second hand kitchen. It's not the house we wanted but it's what we have to go with.

Sorry. Epic rant and probably poorly placed on such a helpful thread, but I'd love to be able to pursue a more environmentally friendly approach. We just cannot afford it.

Is there a big price difference between cast aluminium and PVC?

@BlackAlys PVC is cheapest, then galvanized steel, extruded aluminium is 3x galv, cast is going to be more again. We were quite surprised how competitive Roofart were compared to uPVC - but it is the norm in much of Europe.

One tip: stick with the electric roof windows, we skimped on it and have regretted ever since. We have "managed" with a couple of fan heaters and wood burner for three years having run out of cash. We got a COVID grant for ASHP but then it got cancelled. The other thing I would never get rid of is mechanical ventilation with heat recovery, I reckon it's worth about 2degrees of heating.

We built our place in 2018-19 so pre Brexit and COVID I shudder to think what things are like now. I feel you pain.

Try secondsandco for insultation if you're struggling and the greenbuildingforum is full of genuinely knowledgeable advice.

@MistyMorningSong virgin plastics are more easily recycled, used and environmentally damaged one much less so. The real irony of PET is that it very easily recycled. Damaged uPVC much less so.

I'd be very interested to know the type of plastic you worked with and the recycling method and company.

[quote Daftasabroom]@MistyMorningSong virgin plastics are more easily recycled, used and environmentally damaged one much less so. The real irony of PET is that it very easily recycled. Damaged uPVC much less so.

I'd be very interested to know the type of plastic you worked with and the recycling method and company.[/quote]
You seem to be doubting me (despite saying I have personally witnessed it being recycled), but I'll play along anyway.

This link gives you an overview of the process ;
www.plasticexpert.co.uk/how-is-pvc-guttering-recycled/

I won't say which company I worked for as it may be outing, but they are a major UK manufacturer, and I know competitors were doing the same 4-5 years ago. And I worked in sales, not production / technical, so I'm no expert on the process.

What I can say is that the process uses recycled material to make up the bulk of the gutter (95%+), and then a thin layer of high quality plastic is used as a coating for colour / improved UV degradation / aesthetic purposes. In fact the easiest way to tell if your gutter uses recycled material is to look inside - if it is grey, regardless of the outer visible side (black / brown / white generally), then it will be.

And with regard to your comment that PVC only lasts 10-20 years due to being degraded by sunlight, this is simply not true. The main colour affected by sunlight is brown due to it being the most unstable pigment wise (it can bleach to almost white) but it does not affect its performance. White has no issues at all, black very few, and in most cases it is due to environmental factors, such as which way your house faces against the sun (it is common for them to be bleached on one side, and pristine on the other), and ambient pollution in the atmosphere. Fading gutters / pipes are far more common in coastal areas due to salt in the air.

In fact, the most common reason for gutters failing / leaking, is due to the rubber seals perishing around joints & outlets, and if you have the inclination (and a set of ladders) these can be replaced.

And I'm not saying all gutters are made from recycled material, but many are, and more continue to be.

Hope that helps you.

Photo of our black plastic gutters. I hope it helps x

@newmum0808

Photo of our black plastic gutters. I hope it helps x

It does. Thank you!

@MistyMorningSong not really much help. As I pointed out environmentally damaged plastics and plastics without provenance are very difficult to recycle. Virgin manufacturing waste less so.

I work in technical capacity in polymer engineering and sustainability, have done for thirty years, very happy to go toe to toe on this. I've also put my money where my my mouth is and built a near passive refurb.

As you say you don't have a technical background, I do.

[quote Daftasabroom]@MistyMorningSong not really much help. As I pointed out environmentally damaged plastics and plastics without provenance are very difficult to recycle. Virgin manufacturing waste less so.

I work in technical capacity in polymer engineering and sustainability, have done for thirty years, very happy to go toe to toe on this. I've also put my money where my my mouth is and built a near passive refurb.

As you say you don't have a technical background, I do.[/quote]
So what do you want me to say?

I'm lying? I made it all up? They don't sell recycled gutters? You are right? I am wrong?

Goodnight.

(clearly someone who knows it all, while knowing nothing, and no doubt have the letters after your name to prove it).